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Theresa May Resigns & Conservative Leader Election Discussion

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DynamicSpirit

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Like in the US, isn't Johnson the lesser of two evils (or even three)? Would you like a Corbyn-led government or a government with Farage playing the Nick Clegg role?

Personally, I regard Corbyn as well-meaning but naive, and as pursuing a set of policies that are equally well meaning, but often completely unrealistic and in many ways economically illiterate.

But I'll take a Corbyn-lead Government a million times over a Boris-Johnson-lead Tory Government.
 
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Ianno87

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Positivity isnt going to fix the problems we face and it certainly isnt going to deliver a sensible Brexit. Also "positivity" does not remove the point that Johnson is utterly unfit, by virtue of his character, to to be PM.

Did you not know? We can make Brexit a success if we just believe in it!

Just like NASA landed on the moon, not through brainpower, skill and meticulous planning, but by believing.

Here endeth the first lesson.
 

greyman42

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I would rather have a labour government led by someone who isnt an utter crackpot, facilitator of antisemitism, friend of terrorists and supporter of every barmpot dictator/regime going.
Bring back Blair.
 

Bantamzen

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I have to say I’m very wary of today’s developments. However, his appointment essentially comes as the result of him being the least worst - at this time we don’t appear to have been able to find anyone better.

By that token I think Boris needs to be given a chance. Today has seen the first feeling of positivity in U.K. politics for some while. Never know it might just all work out okay...

I'm not sure I'd call Boris Johnson getting the keys to No.10 positive. No I'd call it, well a nightmare. At a time when stability and calm heads are needed, we call in the circus clown. And by we I don't mean us, I mean those Tory party members who stroked out when they chose Johnson as their preferred choice. There are bags of dead badgers that could do better that this Eatonian Oaf.

But don't take my word for it, sit back and watch the show. Here's what I think is on the bill.

  • Several weeks of Brexiteer Bravado as Johnson assembles his pro-Brexit cabinet.
  • Lots of calls for 'No Deal' from the right leaning press & Johnson supporters, telling us more than ever that "Everything will be OK" & "They (the EU) need us more than we need them".
  • As the Brexit deadline v3.0 approaches, and the EU make it clear that there is little to no room to negotiate, the Brexiteers will stoke up nationalist sentiments.
  • With a few weeks to go, maybe even days, the government falls into panic mode and sends bill after bill through Parliament to try a get May's deal ratified.
  • After several failed attempts, they attempt to ratify 'No Deal', threatening a shutdown.
  • 'No Deal' fails, the government moves to close Parliament down but are hit with a series of legal challenges, followed by a successful vote of no confidence.
  • A General Election is called, and Brexit is put on hold again.
  • The election results in an even more hung Parliament, with the Brexit party & Lib Dems splitting the Labour & Tory votes.
  • The EU finally snaps and starts proceedings to expel the UK from the EU.
  • With a crippled Parliament, stalling economy & falling confidence, major nations such as the US lose interest and leave the UK to fall from the top table. Growth stalls & eventually stops, inflation moves forward as cost of living as a result of WTO & an ineffective government negotiation team. Economists start to talk of recession.
But apart from that everything will be jolly good, and we'll have blue passport covers. Hurrah!!
 

Bantamzen

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Did you not know? We can make Brexit a success if we just believe in it!

Just like NASA landed on the moon, not through brainpower, skill and meticulous planning, but by believing.

Here endeth the first lesson.

Lesson number one, understand the context of the Space Race, and the real motivation behind it!
 

Macwomble

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I'm not sure I'd call Boris Johnson getting the keys to No.10 positive. No I'd call it, well a nightmare. At a time when stability and calm heads are needed, we call in the circus clown. And by we I don't mean us, I mean those Tory party members who stroked out when they chose Johnson as their preferred choice. There are bags of dead badgers that could do better that this Eatonian Oaf.

But don't take my word for it, sit back and watch the show. Here's what I think is on the bill.

  • Several weeks of Brexiteer Bravado as Johnson assembles his pro-Brexit cabinet.
  • Lots of calls for 'No Deal' from the right leaning press & Johnson supporters, telling us more than ever that "Everything will be OK" & "They (the EU) need us more than we need them".
  • As the Brexit deadline v3.0 approaches, and the EU make it clear that there is little to no room to negotiate, the Brexiteers will stoke up nationalist sentiments.
  • With a few weeks to go, maybe even days, the government falls into panic mode and sends bill after bill through Parliament to try a get May's deal ratified.
  • After several failed attempts, they attempt to ratify 'No Deal', threatening a shutdown.
  • 'No Deal' fails, the government moves to close Parliament down but are hit with a series of legal challenges, followed by a successful vote of no confidence.
  • A General Election is called, and Brexit is put on hold again.
  • The election results in an even more hung Parliament, with the Brexit party & Lib Dems splitting the Labour & Tory votes.
  • The EU finally snaps and starts proceedings to expel the UK from the EU.
  • With a crippled Parliament, stalling economy & falling confidence, major nations such as the US lose interest and leave the UK to fall from the top table. Growth stalls & eventually stops, inflation moves forward as cost of living as a result of WTO & an ineffective government negotiation team. Economists start to talk of recession.
But apart from that everything will be jolly good, and we'll have blue passport covers. Hurrah!!

Sums up my views too.
 

takno

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Will it be like a Zombie Apocalypse, because I've been training for a Zombie Apocalypse…
I always figured I'd be able to figure it out as I went. It's really just a matter of ambling about the place eating brains after all.
 

nlogax

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@Bantamzen I think you're on the money for the shorter term stuff. Like any long range forecast I think it goes a little 'finger in the air' towards the end, but the central premise seems pretty feasible. It's a fair assumption to say there -will- be multiple crunch points coming in the near future with the new PM and his government's ability to maintain a grip on power, its course of Brexit and possibly on the Union itself.

What truly throws me for a loop is that there's a metric s***-ton of Conservative MPs and members who don't see any of this coming and who believe that everything's going to be Alright In The End if they just squint their eyes enough to blur out everyone from their immediate view.

But hey ho, pass the popcorn.
 

Aictos

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Every cloud...

Which is a short term view that does nothing for the interest of the country.

Cancelling a much needed infrastructure programme just to win votes ain’t going help anyone.
 

Dave1987

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Did you not know? We can make Brexit a success if we just believe in it!

Just like NASA landed on the moon, not through brainpower, skill and meticulous planning, but by believing.

Here endeth the first lesson.

Just been reading a blog from an expert in international trade. For the US to agree a trade deal with us they are certainly going to demand that our food safety standards are relaxed to and are the same as theirs. But that will throw a spanner in the works with regards to any trade deal that is agreed with the EU as the EU will definitely not accept any lowering of food standards. We are a tiny economy compared to the likes of the US. Now we are quitting one of the biggest trading blocs in the world we will not have the clout to demand good deals. The EU has just negotiated a trade deal with Canada that took years to negotiate. Canada has already stated that the same deal will not be on the table for the UK as the UK economy is not as bigger market as the EU is. Lets stops all this nonsense that we just have to believe in it to make a success of it. And now we have a PM who turns up late for meetings, doesn't pay full attention and blatantly lies on camera. I sincerely hope the media push him on his fish mess up. Held up a fish at some hustings claiming the EU forces fishermen to transport their fish with ice pillows. That is utter nonsense. The EU and UK food standards agency have said it is a British rule about the ice pillow. EU rules simply state that fish must be transported in a way that keeps them safe for human consumption. To me that is a pretty important rule and just shows the nonsense Boris Johnson spouts and that he cannot be trusted as PM.
 

Butts

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He may appear to be a complete tool, but we are stuck with him for the time being.

Let's just hope for the sake of the Country he confounds his critics and makes a success of what is indeed a poisoned chalice.
 

Typhoon

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The name just makes me think of this lot:
The name reminds me of The Ox and …
"He's come to a sticky end,
Don't think he will ever mend,
Never more will he crawl 'round,
He's embedded in the ground."

"Creepy, crawly, creepy, crawly, creepy, crawly, creepy, crawly, creepy, creepy, crawly, crawly, creepy, creepy, crawly, crawly, etc, etc."
 

mmh

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For a start, predators hunt out of necessity. A lion doesn't kill a warthog or antelope for fun. However, fox hunting is a sport done for fun. There is no necessity whatsoever.

Despite your name presumably you've never had a domesticated cat then? They certainly do kill for "fun."
 

mmh

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Great! We've established that trophy hunters have the same moral capacity as a creature that takes a large poo on the carpet for fun. Glad that's been cleared up.

No we haven't, I personally think trophy hunting "hunters" are despicable. I hadn't mentioned them, I just questioned your take that other animals only kill by necessity.

But let's get back to the Conservative party and Boris Johnson. Even he hasn't compared himself to a lion (yet?)
 

GrimShady

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Meh he's just another one in the endless revolving door of administrators. Here today and gone tomorrow.

I fail to see what everyone is getting hysterical about.
 

Esker-pades

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No we haven't, I personally think trophy hunting "hunters" are despicable. I hadn't mentioned them, I just questioned your take that other animals only kill by necessity.

But let's get back to the Conservative party and Boris Johnson. Even he hasn't compared himself to a lion (yet?)
Don't mind me, I'm not being very serious this evening :) .
 

Bantamzen

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@Bantamzen I think you're on the money for the shorter term stuff. Like any long range forecast I think it goes a little 'finger in the air' towards the end, but the central premise seems pretty feasible. It's a fair assumption to say there -will- be multiple crunch points coming in the near future with the new PM and his government's ability to maintain a grip on power, its course of Brexit and possibly on the Union itself.

What truly throws me for a loop is that there's a metric s***-ton of Conservative MPs and members who don't see any of this coming and who believe that everything's going to be Alright In The End if they just squint their eyes enough to blur out everyone from their immediate view.

But hey ho, pass the popcorn.

When the referendum was announced in 2015, I entered the argument at a neutral position, i.e. prepared to listen to both arguments, read the evidence they presented & form my own opinion. Sadly any lucid arguments from Leave & Remain were quickly swamped by the ridiculous rhetoric from the extremes of both sides, meaning forming an educated opinion from neutral became increasingly difficult. As a result I did not vote, not feeling confident that those who would enact whatever the result actually understood what challenges they were facing. Some might call it a kop out, and they may have a point, but I did not feel that I support either position.

However following the Leave result, I watched the Brexiteers lurch between blind optimism, weak arguments for leaving, jingoism, and anger when they feel that they are not getting what they want (despite what they want not actually being legally or politically defined). And so I have increasingly been moving towards a position of status quo, i.e. not leaving until at least how we leave be properly defined and understood not only by those enacting it, but those piling on the political & rhetorical pressure. Sadly Boris Johnson is a crowd pleaser before he is a pragmatic politician, and I seriously fear that he will be more concerned with pleasing his supporters than pragmatically dealing with Brexit (which may still mean futrher delays if needed). Hence my bleak outlook above.

Just been reading a blog from an expert in international trade. For the US to agree a trade deal with us they are certainly going to demand that our food safety standards are relaxed to and are the same as theirs. But that will throw a spanner in the works with regards to any trade deal that is agreed with the EU as the EU will definitely not accept any lowering of food standards. We are a tiny economy compared to the likes of the US. Now we are quitting one of the biggest trading blocs in the world we will not have the clout to demand good deals. The EU has just negotiated a trade deal with Canada that took years to negotiate. Canada has already stated that the same deal will not be on the table for the UK as the UK economy is not as bigger market as the EU is. Lets stops all this nonsense that we just have to believe in it to make a success of it. And now we have a PM who turns up late for meetings, doesn't pay full attention and blatantly lies on camera. I sincerely hope the media push him on his fish mess up. Held up a fish at some hustings claiming the EU forces fishermen to transport their fish with ice pillows. That is utter nonsense. The EU and UK food standards agency have said it is a British rule about the ice pillow. EU rules simply state that fish must be transported in a way that keeps them safe for human consumption. To me that is a pretty important rule and just shows the nonsense Boris Johnson spouts and that he cannot be trusted as PM.

And here's what the "we'll be fine" Brexiteers simply fail to understand. The EU currently has more than 70 trade deals around the world, so a 'no deal' position means falling out of all 70+ & restarting the process. Yes a handful of pre-agreements have been signed, although even these are not guaranteed to become fully fledged deals quickly if at all. So we are looking at years, maybe even decades before we even get towards a position close to that which we currently hold. And in the meantime we will be left with WTO tariffs, which will generally be bad for both imports & exports. To put it in context, there are no other countries, or at least those with markets we are interested in that trade purely on WTO tariffs. Simply put, 'no deal' will leave us hamstrung for a very long time, and no amount of blind optimism will change that.

He may appear to be a complete tool, but we are stuck with him for the time being.

Let's just hope for the sake of the Country he confounds his critics and makes a success of what is indeed a poisoned chalice.

I'm not holding my breath, in his campaigning for the leadership position Johnson has laid his cards out quite well. Look after those that got him there, pay lip service to everyone else. That doesn't bode well at all.
 

Carlisle

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Meh he's just another one in the endless revolving door of administrators. Here today and gone tomorrow.

I fail to see what everyone is getting hysterical about.
And if he succeeds in exiting the EU on no deal without winning a general election or second referendum, then give Farage the next stint in a merged party, as who’s left will essentially be conservatives in name only.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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It is no use for any Corbynites to decry what will occur today as their party had the opportunity to become the party of Government at the last General Election and failed. It was not just the 150,000 Conservative Party acolytes who were to blame for that defeat.

How does anyone on this thread feel about any Labour Government under Corbyn being treated by an American president such as Trump when it comes to any future trade deal?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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And if he succeeds in exiting the EU on no deal without winning a general election or second referendum, then give Farage the next stint in a merged party, given who’s left will essentially be conservatives in name only.

The large car manufacturing plants in Britain still employ a large number of workers and certain of the manufacturers have already spoken openly of their feelings should a "No Deal" departure take place.
 

Carlisle

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What truly throws me for a loop is that there's a metric s***-ton of Conservative MPs and members who don't see any of this coming and who believe that everything's going to be Alright In The End
Absolutely, the large number of MPs who just continuously trot out similar phrases amounting to: ‘we’re leaving on Oct 31st deal or no deal then going to unite the country’, is frightening
 
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Geezertronic

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What's laughable is the amount of people moaning and whinging about Johnson being Prime Minister - it's mainly Labour supporters who need to realise that if Labour had their stuff in order during the last General Election and formed a credible opposition, then May would have lost that election and Johnson would not have had a sniff of being PM (for the time being anyway). The fact that May did appalling during the last election and still managed to form a minority government says more about Labour than it does about the Conservatives
 

DynamicSpirit

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What's laughable is the amount of people moaning and whinging about Johnson being Prime Minister - it's mainly Labour supporters who need to realise that if Labour had their stuff in order during the last General Election and formed a credible opposition, then May would have lost that election and Johnson would not have had a sniff of being PM (for the time being anyway). The fact that May did appalling during the last election and still managed to form a minority government says more about Labour than it does about the Conservatives

I rather think you'll find that most of the people 'moaning and whinging about Johnson being Prime Minister' are in general sensible people of a variety of political persuasions (though probably not too many Tories or Brexit party supporters) who realise that a guy who seems unable to remember what he believed the day before yesterday, routinely tells outright lies, panders to an obviously racist US president in preference to protecting UK embassy staff when they do their jobs, promotes an utter fantasy world in which throwing away half our trade deals overnight with no time to make alternative arrangements is going to be fine, etc. etc. is not exactly the most suitable person to be Prime Minister.
 

Geezertronic

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I rather think you'll find that most of the people 'moaning and whinging about Johnson being Prime Minister' are in general sensible people of a variety of political persuasions (though probably not too many Tories or Brexit party supporters) who realise that a guy who seems unable to remember what he believed the day before yesterday, routinely tells outright lies, panders to an obviously racist US president in preference to protecting UK embassy staff when they do their jobs, promotes an utter fantasy world in which throwing away half our trade deals overnight with no time to make alternative arrangements is going to be fine, etc. etc. is not exactly the most suitable person to be Prime Minister.

And yet if Labour had their stuff in order in the last General Election, Johnson wouldn't have even had a sniff. I am not sure that anyone would be credible from any political colour given the last 3 years of nonsense from Blue and Red.
 

Bantamzen

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What's laughable is the amount of people moaning and whinging about Johnson being Prime Minister - it's mainly Labour supporters who need to realise that if Labour had their stuff in order during the last General Election and formed a credible opposition, then May would have lost that election and Johnson would not have had a sniff of being PM (for the time being anyway). The fact that May did appalling during the last election and still managed to form a minority government says more about Labour than it does about the Conservatives

Do you have any evidence that it is mainly Labour supporters? There are plenty of Conservatives unhappy with the appointment, as well as plenty of Labour supporters who are deeply unhappy with Corbyn.
 

DarloRich

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Bring back Blair.

I would take some of that 3 election victory stuff. After all wining elections is something Corncob has spectacularly failed to deliver......................................

( Do we need the achievements of the Tony Blair era post again?)
 
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