So by this logic why does the LNER need one and I wasn`t aware we had a Shinkansen from Paddington to Plymouth as I am unaware of any journeys to Plymouth of only 2 hours.
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Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR
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IMO, the Waterloo to Exeter service also needs proper long distance trains with a buffet.
Bletchleyite
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From when I used it I'd prioritise trains that didn't leave your ears rattling by the time you get off. Over 3 hours without a break on a 1990s DMU really is grim, even if 158s have nice interiors.
80x don't have this issue as the sound insulation is far better - so it's not really that the train is unsuitable, it just needs a different interior fit-out for those routes.
HamworthyGoods
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Well that would go down well with commuters from Andover etc who struggle to find a seat currently on 9 car DMUs. Less seats to have a buffet I’m sure they’ll welcome that....
Bletchleyite
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I suppose fundamentally those trains aren't intended for long distance journeys - they are long distance regional expresses doubling as a budget through service, not dissimilar in concept to some of the LNR long distance stuff.
HamworthyGoods
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Very well put !
Goldfish62
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I wouldn't mind the trolley so much if it was reasonably consistent and offered more than lukewarm tea and crisps. Quite how GWR has the cheek to advertise non - existent hot food on its website and get away with it.
R G NOW.
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This is absolutely true. Get on a London Paddington train from Cheltenham spa, and you will see the number of seats reserved for the full journey.
The trains to Plymouth stop at Exeter, sorry if my post did not make that clear. If you need a buffet from London to Exeter then you obviously will have it to Plymouth. I was contrasting this with a journey to Exeter from SR stations that make do with a trolley, my point being, I repeat, that pax refreshment needs will be the same on any long rail journey, regardless of speeds attained during it. Labelling something 'inter city' or 'regional' will not change that need.
The most obvious counter argument is that the Waterloo service is primarily there to serve intermediate destinations, and if you want a buffet on a journey to Exeter then you should have the option of getting a train the other way. Right now you don't have the option on either, which is pointlessly annoying.
From a personal perspective I can quite happily sit in the more-comfortable seats on the Waterloo train and not worry about buffets, but it's much more expensive most of the time so I tend to just put up with a couple of hours of misery on the IET
Someone getting on at Clapham Junction and getting off at Crewkerne might have a different view of the facilities that should be on offer. My point is not that there should be better than a trolley on this service but there is no logical argument that there should be better on the GWR one. The need of one customer for a service is not affected by how many others require it either. The issue is one of commercial decision by the TOC and has nothing to do with any other consideration.
Bletchleyite
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Let's see. Clapham Junction-Crewkerne - approximately 2.5 hours. Paddington-Penzance - approximately 5.5 hours.
Unusually, quite a lot of people are doing the whole run to Penzance, and even more will be going to St Erth for St Ives, and to Par for Newquay (approximately 4.5 hours).
They are not even slightly similar services. As I said, and quite a few people seem to be disregarding for some reason I can't quite understand, these are unique services in the UK. They are only comparable with the Caledonian Sleeper, the Highland Chieftain and the LNER KX-Aberdeen services as IC services where most passengers make a journey of well over four hours, mostly without breaking up the journey in any form. Furthermore, a lot of people are boarding/alighting at stations with very limited catering facilites, something that isn't going to affect a long-distance passenger from say Kings Cross to Edinburgh.
There are the long XC services but these are like Liverpool-Norwich in that people are making many different overlapping short journeys, almost nobody does the whole thing.
They therefore have a rather unique need in terms of catering and comfort levels. They'd be well served with a DB style sit-in Bistro plus a buffet counter, and with things like a family/kids cinema coach and the likes.
The absence of buffets from these trains has nothing to do with GWR. The DfT, in their infinite stupidity, wouldn't let them.
Fine. Buffets for everyone! There are very few long train journeys I don't think would benefit from one, and I'm more than happy to see one on south-west trains services. Obviously the priority should be for trains where a significant portion of the passengers are on there for more than an hour or so and don't have a better option for making the journey, but I'm sure we can cater to the all-important Clapham to Crewkerne market sooner or later.
HamworthyGoods
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I’m not sure many people would share your view. In fact the buffet card used on the evening peak Bournemouth’s are currently being removed under a plan drawn up by the previous franchisee to increase seating capacity.
I guess we could just split the service at Salisbury instead. That way it wouldn't be a long distance service, we can all agree that a buffet on it would be pointless, and we can get back to discussing buffets on the trains where people were actually asking for them back.
On this I completely agree.
Busaholic
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You only need to see the seat reservations at Penzance to realise how many are going all the way to Paddington, with a few more for Reading, and that's not even taking into account thE many who don't reserve a seat. Having been a fixture in the town for years, I recognise so many locals, even though I may not know their names: once, indeed, I travelled from Paddington with a woman not my wife and my wife was later informed of the fact by four different locals travelling on the same train!
Fast Track
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That made me laugh as it happened to me but further up the line and Paddington to Newbury!
I think they’d have to have a fairly strong opinion on it to make such sweeping changes. Looking at the SoS’s CV he doesn’t seem to be particularly strong on anything. Seems more like a patsy yes man to fill out BoJo’s cabinet with allies - like Grayling was to May.
Goldfish62
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Very well put, and hopefully explained to those who may not appreciate the long distance nature of the journeys on the West of England services.
Incidentally, bistros are no longer considered good enough on DB. As part of the ICE 3 refurbishment, the bistros are being ripped out and replaced with full restaurants.
I'd have thought that the Newcastle-Bristol and Scotland-Midlands traffic would be reasonably busy at least, which whilst they aren't the full journey are at least a good long chunk. On the really long XC services a passenger only going half way is still on the train for four to six hours!
Goldfish62
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The buffet on 444s hasn't been in full use for years, only when the train is crowded as a useful port to serve from.
Goldfish62
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The SoS for Transport is usually just a stepping stone and the holder normally has no interest in their brief (except to grovel to the car lobby). Mr G was unusual in that it was his last chance saloon after messing up his more senior briefs. We have just returned to normal status.
I'd rather he concentrated on getting the the rest of the Great Western Mainline electrified (Chippenham-Bath-Bristol TM-Filton-Bristol Parkway and Didcot-Oxford) than putting buffets in Class 800s to be quite honest.
Busaholic
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If only Johnny Mercer MP, a Boris supporter, had been appointed: things might become different then! Incidentally, Grayling's demise means that his consistently stated line that a Dawlish solution was his ''no. 1 priority'' presumably no longer holds true, not that it makes a scrap of difference.
There isn't going to be a buffet on GWR unless GWR wants to put one on and DfT don't mind. I don't understand why many here think such matters are decided otherwise, especially not by an RMT petition!
Edit: missed out a 'not'.
Edit: missed out a 'not'.
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The point is, if buffets were a waste of time and unpopular, no TOC would have them, and nobody would use them. However, they are established, they are used, and they are still being fitted to new build trains in different regions. As well as operators like ScotRail bringing them in as a new option.
If you remove something established which has become the expected norm over 30 years then some people are going to want the alternative back if they considered that the change has been for the worst. Completely natural and right they should voice their opinions.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
FWIW, had the trolley been implemented reliably (always there, passing about once an hour) I don't think anyone would be complaining. I don't care how my cup of tea gets to me, as long as it does.
The fundamental issue is the utter mess that has been made of the implementation of this change.
VT 390
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Have I just been lucky with the services I have travelled on as all but 2 trips on GWR IET services this year I have had the trolly pass by me at least once and some of these trips have been quite short.
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