Interviewed under caution for expired railcard

TheaM94 · 23 Jul 2019

I was travelling from London Liverpool Street to Stansted airport on a ticket I bought using the 16-25 Railcard discount. When I got to Stansted I was stopped at a ticket check and the guys there asked to see my railcard, which I took out of my wallet only to realise it had expired. Now, this was an honest mistake on my part, as this was a 3-year railcard and I was so used to having it I hadn't checked its expiration date in a while (I also hadn't been asked for it in ages). Anyway, I would have been ready to admit I made a mistake and pay whatever they asked for, as a penalty fare, but instead they demanded that I show them ID and give them a lot of details like my address, how long I'd been living there for, what I do, etc. The guy told me he'd have to ask me some questions, and started by saying he needed me to confirm that I understand that I'm not under arrest etc. which I did (I assume he was interviewing me under caution). As I was there to catch a flight, I didn't want to make things worse, so tried to be as cooperative as possible, and explain the situation. Yes, it seemed like my railcard had expired, but I didn't realise that was the case and no, I did not intentionally try to get away with not paying the full price. He asked me if I had the means to pay the full price of the ticket and I said yes, and assumed he would ask me to pay it plus a fine, so went to get my card, but he said I didn't have to pay anything, but would instead get a letter through the post instead. He also said that since it was a first-time offence, it wouldn't get too bad.

At the time I assumed this would all sort itself out, I'd get a letter and have to pay a fine and that would be it. But now that I've looked into what the consequences of being interviewed under caution can be, I am worried about the possibility of prosecution and something like this going on my record. My question is, what are the chances this will go beyond me having to pay a fine? And how could I have handled the situation better, once I realised my railcard was expired?

RailUK Forums

furlong · 23 Jul 2019

How long ago had the railcard expired?

najaB · 23 Jul 2019

TheaM94 said:
My question is, what are the chances this will go beyond me having to pay a fine? And how could I have handled the situation better, once I realised my railcard was expired?

How far out of date was the Railcard?

TheaM94 · 23 Jul 2019

najaB said:
How far out of date was the Railcard?

Unfortunately it had expired this November. As I live close to where I work in London, I don't travel by rail often, so I hadn't used it in quite a while.

najaB · 23 Jul 2019

TheaM94 said:
Unfortunately it had expired this November. As I live close to where I work in London, I don't travel by rail often, so I hadn't used it in quite a while.

Eight months out of date takes this out of "innocent mistake" and into likely fare evasion, I'm sorry to say.

TheaM94 · 23 Jul 2019

najaB said:
Eight months out of date takes this out of "innocent mistake" and into likely fare evasion, I'm sorry to say.

Maybe, for someone who travels by train often. I understand how this looks, I do. I guess at this point, it would be very hard for me to convince them it was a genuine mistake, even though I know it was.

Haywain · 23 Jul 2019

TheaM94 said:
Maybe, for someone who travels by train often. I understand how this looks, I do. I guess at this point, it would be very hard for me to convince them it was a genuine mistake, even though I know it was.

In court terms, intent is judged by words and actions, not by thoughts. How often you travel by train is not an argument you should rely on. Eight months is seriously out of date, a couple of days might be minor.

najaB · 23 Jul 2019

TheaM94 said:
Maybe, for someone who travels by train often.

That fact that you don't travel often makes it even more suspicious that you didn't check to see if your card was in date.

If I hadn't used a Railcard in that length of time the first thing would be doing is making sure that I still had it and that it was still valid.

TheaM94 · 24 Jul 2019

najaB said:
That fact that you don't travel often makes it even more suspicious that you didn't check to see if your card was in date.

If I hadn't used a Railcard in that length of time the first thing would be doing is making sure that I still had it and that it was still valid.

I used to travel more often before moving to London, then a lot less often over the past year. Again, I am aware of how this looks. I understand my mistake in not checking my railcard. It is now too late to change any of these facts. I am simply trying to find out if there is anything I can do now to avoid going to court over this. Would it be worth contacting the company, apologising for my mistake and offering to pay the necessary fees?

TheaM94 · 24 Jul 2019

Haywain said:
In court terms, intent is judged by words and actions, not by thoughts. How often you travel by train is not an argument you should rely on. Eight months is seriously out of date, a couple of days might be minor.

Yes, I understand that to anyone other than me, the genuine reasons for my mistake aren't worth much without proof. But would lying, and saying that yes, I intentionally tried to avoid paying a full ticket, make the situation any better? I genuinely don't know if I have any options here. That is what I am trying to find out....

gray1404 · 24 Jul 2019

The next step is that the train company will most likely write to you to ask for your side of the story. This can take anything up to 6 months. At this point you can respond stating your error, that it was a genuine mistake, that you apologise and will make sure you travel with a valid ticket in future and offer to pay any outstanding fare and offer to make a contribution towards their costs in dealing with this matter. This is known as an out of court settlement. If you have never been in trouble with that train company before then their is a fair chance you may achieve this outcome.

Please make sure you keep an eye on your mail over the next 6 months especially if you are going to be away, have someone check your mail. Also, please come back to this thread for advice on to write your letter. We can help you draft it.

TheaM94 · 24 Jul 2019

gray1404 said:
The next step is that the train company will most likely write to you to ask for your side of the story. This can take anything up to 6 months. At this point you can respond stating your error, that it was a genuine mistake, that you apologise and will make sure you travel with a valid ticket in future and offer to pay any outstanding fare and offer to make a contribution towards their costs in dealing with this matter. This is known as an out of court settlement. If you have never been in trouble with that train company before then their is a fair chance you may achieve this outcome.

Please make sure you keep an eye on your mail over the next 6 months especially if you are going to be away, have someone check your mail. Also, please come back to this thread for advice on to write your letter. We can help you draft it.

Thank you, I'll make sure to do that! So you don't think it's worth preemptively contacting them to offer to pay the fare and contribution before getting the letter, then?

najaB · 24 Jul 2019

TheaM94 said:
I used to travel more often before moving to London, then a lot less often over the past year. Again, I am aware of how this looks. I understand my mistake in not checking my railcard. It is now too late to change any of these facts.

I appreciate that you're seeking advice, but please understand that in order to give useful advice we have to fully understand the situation so we need to ask the kind of questions that the TOC would be asking when deciding if to prosecute or not.

TheaM94 said:
I am simply trying to find out if there is anything I can do now to avoid going to court over this. Would it be worth contacting the company, apologising for my mistake and offering to pay the necessary fees?

As @gray1404 said earlier, it is too soon to be contacting the TOC since it can take a few days for your file to land on someone's desk. Hold tight for now, wait for their letter and then try your best to put your story across in a manner likely to get an empathetic response.

gray1404 · 24 Jul 2019

Best waiting until they contact you. When they do get in touch you will only have a short window to reply within. If there is anything you might have forgotten to mention here in terms of what happened or the conversation that took place, please feel free to mention. Otherwise wait for them to contact you. When you get that letter it might be useful for you to upload a copy here, with personal details and reference number extracted, so we know exactly what they want from you. As I mentioned above, you can draft a copy of your reply here and get feedback before sending it so you can send a strong reply.

Hadders · 24 Jul 2019

I agree that it is best to wait until the train company writes to you.

MichaelAMW · 24 Jul 2019

najaB said:
That fact that you don't travel often makes it even more suspicious that you didn't check to see if your card was in date.

If I hadn't used a Railcard in that length of time the first thing would be doing is making sure that I still had it and that it was still valid.

I don't think it makes it more suspicious. We all have countless items with long expiry dates that we don't check very carefully or annual bills that we don't think about. Fortunately, in general we are reminded of some, e.g. council tax or car tax, or automatic replacements arrive for others, e.g. credit cards. Really high-risk items, in particular my passport, I take notice of but your average busy person doesn't always have the time or energy to keep on top of these things. With more and more remote purchases, the railcard is scrutinised less often.

So, yes, he should have checked; but, no, its not terribly suspicious.

najaB · 24 Jul 2019

MichaelAMW said:
So, yes, he should have checked; but, no, its not terribly suspicious.

The regular traveller, using their railcard on a consistent basis might naturally assume that the card was in their wallet/purse since that's where it was last week. Someone who's not used their railcard in nearly a year would, one assumes, check to see that they still actually have it.

kristiang85 · 25 Jul 2019

I would always agree that leniency should be shown if it was a few days, even a week maybe - time flies these days and can be a blur (especially if you could prove you didn't travel by train in that period somehow). But I doubt you'll get much sympathy for 8 months - that's 22% of the time of the railcard.

As it is a first time offence hopefully you'll just get a settlement offer - just pay it (don't contest as I can't see any get-out) and in future put expiry days in your calendar.

The_Train · 25 Jul 2019

Have you renewed the railcard now @TheaM94?

najaB · 25 Jul 2019

The_Train said:
Have you renewed the railcard now @TheaM94?

Sorry, wrong thread.

TheaM94 · 9 Aug 2019

The_Train said:
Have you renewed the railcard now @TheaM94?

Yes, I have now renewed it. I'll be waiting for the letter from them, and post here again when I receive it.

TheaM94 · 10 Aug 2019

I finally got the letter from them today. As @gray1404 suggested, here is the letter with the details redacted:

najaB · 10 Aug 2019

A pretty standard "Do you have anything to say for yourself?" letter.

Reply, explaining how you came to be travelling with an expired Railcard, admit your mistake, promise to be more careful in the future and offer to reimburse the costs that they've incurred.

Not much else you can do at this stage.

gray1404 · 11 Aug 2019

I agree with the above. Perhaps it would be useful if you drafted a reply in a post here so that we can check it for you before sending it.

You are not obliged to give the train company your date of birth, occupation, email address or phone number unless you want to.

najaB · 11 Aug 2019

gray1404 said:
You are not obliged to give the train company your date of birth, occupation, email address or phone number unless you want to.

While this is true, date of birth allows the TOC to distinguish between yourself and someone else with the same (or similar) name, and it's been reported more than once in the forum that matters have been resolved over the phone.

TheaM94 · 2 Sep 2019

Hey! Just to let you guys know, I got another letter from the rail company, basically saying they're willing to settle for a fee, so I paid they £86 they asked for and the issue is now resolved. Thank you so much for all your help!

najaB · 2 Sep 2019

TheaM94 said:
Hey! Just to let you guys know, I got another letter from the rail company, basically saying they're willing to settle for a fee, so I paid they £86 they asked for and the issue is now resolved. Thank you so much for all your help!

Glad to hear it. Out of curiosity, did they give you a breakdown of how the £86 was arrived at?

TheaM94 · 2 Sep 2019

najaB said:
Glad to hear it. Out of curiosity, did they give you a breakdown of how the £86 was arrived at?

£6 was the difference between the fare I paid and the one I should have paid, and the rest, they said, were the costs they incurred dealing with the case.

najaB · 2 Sep 2019

TheaM94 said:
£6 was the difference between the fare I paid and the one I should have paid, and the rest, they said, were the costs they incurred dealing with the case.

Thanks. I thought that was how they'd worked it out but wanted to be sure. For your info, £80 is pretty standard for costs.

Hadders · 2 Sep 2019

This is a decent result, especially considering that the Railcard was several months out of date.

Interviewed under caution for expired railcard

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