• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Heat related issues (25 July 2019 and subsequent days)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
Now I know there are reasons beyond GTR's control but also in their own control so why could they not have operated Bedford to St Pancras calling all stations between Bedford and St Albans as well as Luton to St Pancras calling all stations in place of the usual timetable, yes it's less trains but it's a more reliable timetable.

Also why were the GXs running? Surely under the circumstances like today, it's more important to run a reliable service for the many and not the few eg there are alternatives such as SN and TL that can be used so why not suspend the GX service for today?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

broadgage

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2012
Messages
1,094
Location
Somerset
All the warnings leading up to today were concerned with the potential for buckling rails, whereas all the major problems seem to have been OHLE (have ANY rail issues been reported?). Are these coincidences, or has OHLE now also joined the ranks of engineering not heat-proofed? I note that it is thought that an HST triggered the MML issue - very odd, given its lack of pantograph or anything else that would come anywhere near the OHLE. Surely OHLE wouldn't slacken so much in one section that it dropped the several feet needed to foul a train?

A set of semi-rhetorical questions here - too early to answer I expect.

From the limited information available so far, it looks as though the overhead fell down ONTO an HST rather than the HST being the cause of the overhead failing.
 

underbank

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2013
Messages
1,486
Location
North West England
It might be naive, but that doesn’t make it any more sensible. I try to avoid non-refundable hotel bookings for this very reason, even so I’ve had to suck up losses on occasions thanks to the weather, it’s just one of those facts of life.

For the sake of avoiding writing off the cost of a few tickets, is it *really* worth risking being stuck for hours in an overcrowded sauna full of families? It’s utter madness.

People don't have money to waste. Some family tickets to attractions and hotel bookings can easily cost several hundred pounds. Last year I took my son for a Wembley stadium tour in July. For just 2 of us staying in a nearby hotel for one night cost nearly £300 inc the non refundable Wembley tour tickets and advance train fares. You can't just write that off, especially with all the weather warnings that come to nothing.
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
15,823
Location
East Anglia
It might be naive, but that doesn’t make it any more sensible. I try to avoid non-refundable hotel bookings for this very reason, even so I’ve had to suck up losses on occasions thanks to the weather, it’s just one of those facts of life.

For the sake of avoiding writing off the cost of a few tickets, is it *really* worth risking being stuck for hours in an overcrowded sauna full of families? It’s utter madness.
I so agree with the hotels thing. I've given up on non-refundable. What's the point of all the stress if things go wrong just to save £20 a night on the booking?
 

squizzler

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2017
Messages
1,903
Location
Jersey, Channel Islands
1A26 is alongside. The doors of the Pendo 1H27 are open and passengers visible fanning themselves, so presumably no air-con, been there 2 hours now
Train 1H27 has the wires down on or very near the train, and evacuation plans are being made.
I am listening to BBC 6 music where Mark Riley's evening session act were unable to record on account of being trapped on (what I presume must be) this train. The name of the band? The Catenary Wires!
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
All the warnings leading up to today were concerned with the potential for buckling rails, whereas all the major problems seem to have been OHLE (have ANY rail issues been reported?). Are these coincidences, or has OHLE now also joined the ranks of engineering not heat-proofed? I note that it is thought that an HST triggered the MML issue - very odd, given its lack of pantograph or anything else that would come anywhere near the OHLE. Surely OHLE wouldn't slacken so much in one section that it dropped the several feet needed to foul a train?

A set of semi-rhetorical questions here - too early to answer I expect.

There were 3 trains at the same time in that spot, 2 of which have a pantograph (both on slow), yet the OHLE collapsed on the line occupied by the HST. That particular section (where the arrow is in the picture above) is where TL trains cross from fast to slow and they do it at fairly decent speed so a) the speed restriction possibly was meant to save it b) it might have been weakened before and the HST and the 2 TL trains completed the blow.

OLE has always had heat issues - the GEML famously had 3 levels of speed restrictions to be imposed, the first of which was at 26C air temperature. This has largely been eradicated since the kit was all replaced south of Shenfield (except for the little bit that hasn’t been). As I mentioned earlier, it was not unknown for the OLE to sag enough to get down to train level; this was usually on the fixed tension sections, but could happen on tensioned kit once the balance weights were on the floor, which happened rather often. When I used to have to worry about these things, any temperature above 30C would lead to a much higher risk of OLE issues; anything above 34C guaranteed it. (Last night I advised all my friends not to travel today based on that, and those that heeded it have been rather thankful; I shan’t be buying drinks for a while when I get back).

Re the West Hampstead dewirement. The speed restriction is not at that location; what can be seen in the picture is the advance warning board for an Emergency Speed restriction on the Up Slow south of Belsize tunnel (which is on for heat). I don’t know any detail of he incident - being rather a long way from the incident at present (in distance and time!) but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a heat induced failure of one component in the complex wire runs in that area. If a junction wire run fails then it usually knocks out at least one other line.
 

TrainGeekUK

Member
Joined
15 Jun 2019
Messages
101
Nothing running now between Oxted and Uckfield... my sister will have fun getting back tonight!
 

158756

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2014
Messages
1,426
Trains have started leaving Kings Cross in the last hour, but everything still seems to be stopped at Peterborough. The first one out, the 1800 to Edinburgh (left at 1849) appears to have stopped at Biggleswade, with a train already stopped at St Neots ahead, and another before Peterborough. I hope they've got that right.

According to LNER journey check, the only notable thing about the 1600 Kings Cross to Aberdeen (due 2312) is that it's 35 minutes late. As of 1950 it's between Huntingdon and Peterborough. If it reaches Aberdeen (is it even possible?) it'll be past 2am.
 

hibtastic

Member
Joined
19 Oct 2014
Messages
281
I’m just back from probably what is my worst ever journey on the WCML. I’ve just been baked at over 40 degrees on the 1420 Pendolino from Euston to Manchester for nearly 4 hours. Apparently the air con was broken and they tried to fix it before deciding they couldn’t and sending it out anyway.

On arrival at Piccadilly there were multiple passengers passed out in the aisles and doorways being treated by medics and train crew and a few of the crew who were all fantastic despite the conditions they had to work in, in tears. I was drenched through with sweat - it was like a wet t-shirt contest on there. Awful stuff.

There seems to be a few issues with various Pendolinos having the same problem today. Coincidence?
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
What's going on at Waterloo? Seen a few different things on twitter..

Trespasser on the tracks country end of plat 12 retrieving dog in the direction of vauxhall, GSMR call all trains were at a stand for a considerable amount of time!
There’s media shot from a carriage on Twitter.
 

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
What's going on at Waterloo? Seen a few different things on twitter..

I'm afraid it was exactly what I said. The trespasser has been arrested. Not helped by a driver also deciding to chase the dog.

Nothing running now between Oxted and Uckfield... my sister will have fun getting back tonight!

3 track circuits and a set of points went pop at Ashurst Junction. All fixed about 40mins ago (within a few minutes of the S&T staff arriving on site, after being stuck in traffic). Resulted in a couple of very very late trains, some of which had already been delayed due to a dragging brake on a 171 unit at Oxted earlier. Plus 300 people were left unceremoniously at Ashurst due to a train terminating there (a station which has precisely no staff or facilities, being a rural village in the backwaters of the Weald).
 

BJames

Established Member
Joined
27 Jan 2018
Messages
1,359
I'm afraid it was exactly what I said. The trespasser has been arrested. Not helped by a driver also deciding to chase the dog.
Apologies, I missed your post. What a shame - huge amount of disruption caused from this.
Nothing running now between Oxted and Uckfield... my sister will have fun getting back tonight!

I3 track circuits and a set of points went pop at Ashurst Junction. All fixed about 40mins ago (within a few minutes of the S&T staff arriving on site, after being stuck in traffic). Resulted in a couple of very very late trains, some of which had already been delayed due to a dragging brake on a 171 unit at Oxted earlier. Plus 300 people were left unceremoniously at Ashurst due to a train terminating there (a station which has precisely no staff or facilities, being a rural village in the backwaters of the Weald).
This line is interesting to use when there is disruption... more than once found myself a little stranded in Edenbridge Town with no staff to tell us when the trains might start running again... fortunately Edenbridge station is just down the road, but an hourly wait was unwelcome to say the least.


Disruption is expected on the West Anglia route until 12 tomorrow.
NRE said that:
The overhead electric wires have been damaged between Northumberland Park and Meridian Water. Due to the extensive damage sustained to the overhead wires, trains will be disrupted through to midday tomorrow, Friday 26 July. This is to allow for Network Rail engineers to make repairs.
Doesn't sound too good at all.
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,489
1D20 1533 London KX to Leeds seems to be on its way again 189 mins late, after a 3 hour pause at Peterborough.

1S23 1530 London KX to Glasgow doesn’t seem to have moved though.
 

ptreanor

Member
Joined
2 May 2017
Messages
38
I was on the train to St Albans and had a close up view of the incident since the explosion happened right in front of my face. An MML HST going into STP triggerd this and then the overhead line collapsed onto the fast line and also landed on our train. We stopped literally 400/500 yards short of the station (as did another TL going out of WHP towards KTN) and that meant being stuck for 2h on a train with no AC and closed doors. The TL going into London moved back into WHP roughly 45 mins after the incident. Whereas we were left stranded.

The updates were frequent (until the onboard batteries died about 100mins in) and the staff were helpful but there was zero specifics as to what they will do and when they will do something to evacuate us out of what quickly became a sauna. After almost 2hrs we got told that we will be evacuated through the front cabin of our train onto the tracks and then hop onto the other TL through which we then walked onto platform 1.

What's interesting is that the exact spot where the HST tripped the OHLE there is a temporary speed restriction, possibly they wanted to prevent this but it wasn't enough? You can see it in the picture below. The arrow shows where the cable dropped. The box on the top shows the smoke from the fire.

Y9I5OIi.jpg
The speed sign that you refer to relates to a speed restriction at braking distance ahead and not at that location.
 

mmh

Established Member
Joined
13 Aug 2016
Messages
3,744
Does it really take over 2 hours to evacuate one train to another?

The BBC News channel was showing aerial footage of it this afternoon, and having seen that I'm not surprised it isn't a speedy process. One passenger at a time being helped to climb down from the Pendolino, over to the Voyager, climb up on board followed by staff handing their luggage up.

I don't see how it could be done any differently or faster really.
 

SilentGrade

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2017
Messages
135
Now I know there are reasons beyond GTR's control but also in their own control so why could they not have operated Bedford to St Pancras calling all stations between Bedford and St Albans as well as Luton to St Pancras calling all stations in place of the usual timetable, yes it's less trains but it's a more reliable timetable.

Because the wires were down outside of St Pancras?
 

Silver Cobra

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2015
Messages
866
Location
Bedfordshire
1D20 1533 London KX to Leeds seems to be on its way again 189 mins late, after a 3 hour pause at Peterborough.

1S23 1530 London KX to Glasgow doesn’t seem to have moved though.

LNER's Travel Alerts page reports this was terminated at Huntingdon, with an additional service started at 1808 from York to Glasgow Central in it's place
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
Because the wires were down outside of St Pancras?

Not at start of service it wasn't! It would have been better to just run a amended service from start to end of service for today?

Trying to run the usual timetable which is what was happening on TL North was just asking for trouble and as the EMT Corby services were only running as a shuttle to/from Kettering there might have been a freed up platform at St Pancras High Level.

I'm not saying GTR would have known about the OHL issues ahead of time but it would have been better to run a amended TL North TT today using the pattern I suggested above which has been done before, as a result we saw some rather interesting workings such as Bedford to Harpenden!
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
15,823
Location
East Anglia
The BBC News channel was showing aerial footage of it this afternoon, and having seen that I'm not surprised it isn't a speedy process. One passenger at a time being helped to climb down from the Pendolino, over to the Voyager, climb up on board followed by staff handing their luggage up.

I don't see how it could be done any differently or faster really.
Exactly & yes it can take hours. I was on the rail collision at Diss last year & we where stationary 6 hours. It's one by one down a ladder. The train here may have had at least 500 whereas we had 159. You cannot rush these things as many are very & I mean very immobile.
 

158756

Established Member
Joined
12 Aug 2014
Messages
1,426
1D20 1533 London KX to Leeds seems to be on its way again 189 mins late, after a 3 hour pause at Peterborough.

1S23 1530 London KX to Glasgow doesn’t seem to have moved though.

The 1533 is now 205 late after a lengthy stop at Grantham.

The 1600 to Aberdeen has left Peterborough and is 200 minutes late.

The 0952 Aberdeen - Kings Cross is moving again, passed Huntingdon 257 late (that's a long journey whatever the temperature!)

A 1608 STP Kings Cross - Peterborough (put in after the trouble started in anticipation of diversions?) is yet to arrive at Peterborough.

And to make matters worse a GC service to Bradford has terminated at Potters Bar - good luck to those passengers getting home.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,182
Location
Fenny Stratford
It is still chaos in London. Most north facing terminals in complete melt down. Little moving at Euston, nothing at St Pancras and very little at Kings Cross.

I have seen some pictures of Euston and it is a zoo
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
5,846
Location
Yorkshire
Glossop Line has been out of action since around 1pm today - overhead wire problems, but I'm unsure as to whether it was heat-related.

The wires on my line do sag a lot more compared to others though to be honest, especially at Flowery Field.
 

Silver Cobra

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2015
Messages
866
Location
Bedfordshire
A 1608 STP Kings Cross - Peterborough (put in after the trouble started in anticipation of diversions?) is yet to arrive at Peterborough.

I used this service to get back to Stevenage from London today. It left Stevenage at 1643, so it's taken over 4 hours for it to reach just outside Peterborough. I feel very sorry for those on board that service. The air-con in the carriage I was in struggled to work properly and no catering services were available, so I can imagine conditions on board are pretty terrible right now.
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,557
It would be naïve to think that there won't be issues on the SWR tomorrow and I'm honestly surprised they haven't even considered the possibility of a reduced service considering other London commuter TOCs have. In the past they have implemented a special service for lower temperatures, and Woking is forecast to have temps of up to 36c...

Best of luck to you.
There were delays due to a defective track earlier at Waterloo. No mention of speed restrictions that I am aware of. Some signaling issues but again no speed restrictions

There was congestion at one point but they eventually announced it was easing so the disruption was over. By 16:10 it was no more. Alas by some point after 17:00 trains were running with delays. That was probably fresh congestion or perhaps congestion caused by earlier congestion! I'm not being entirely serious with the last point. It was probably some fresh signalling issue somewhere else. It was hot out there.

As for aircon, I am finding on some trains the aircon is great in one section of a single carriage but bad in another section of the same carriage.

Then there are trains where aircon is not that great, yet on others it's great and that trains with people on them. I might in a perfect world expect both trains to have same level of aircon temperature. I'm not finding the internally refurbished trains have better aircon than those which haven't been. That doesn't seem to make a difference as to which have better aircon.

However I still doubt it's heating being switched on, on the trains.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top