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Heat related issues (25 July 2019 and subsequent days)

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Antman

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But there weren't any. None of the roads melted, they had all been adequately designed with tolerances, not minimally specified.

No melting roads that I'm aware of although some people do exaggerate. I heard a girl on her phone telling someone she would be home late as the railway lines were melting in the heat.
 
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TUC

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Have a look at the 'locked' thread regarding windows!
Brilliant idea except someone will get injured and it will be the TOC's fault.
But there’s the problem. TOCs are far more content for people to be ill through them passively doing nothing than to be held liable from actively doing something and a person being stupid.
 

TUC

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It is somewhat irritating to be on a train today as one of many passengers who were stuck in London last night and hear the guard just read out the usual script about ‘please check your ticket is for this journey, the xxyy hours, and not even acknowledge that many people will likely be on board with tickets from yesterday.
 

modernrail

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It is somewhat irritating to be on a train today as one of many passengers who were stuck in London last night and hear the guard just read out the usual script about ‘please check your ticket is for this journey, the xxyy hours, and not even acknowledge that many people will likely be on board with tickets from yesterday.
FULLY agree with this. Every guard on an affected route should he starting their announcements with an apology about the service yesterday and making sure people feel at ease about their ticket rather than fearing a couple of hundred quid unwanted surprise.
 

HOOVER29

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On the comparison with those fighting on the beaches of Normany...My Grandad was a Captain in the Royal Army Service Corps, one of the last out at Dunkirk (we think the last Destroyer) and one of the first in on D-Day. Mentioned in Dispatches for bravery in taking in his men to put out a massive fire one of the first fuel ships into Cherbourg. He was nearly captured a number of times but out his foot down on his BSA and shot at a lot, part organised and lay the supply routes for the front line into Bruge and Berlin and endured the horror of being one of the first into a number of concentration camps including Belsen.

He couldn't understand it when people who had never been near a battlefield compared everyday situations with war. As he said many times, people of his generation would and frequently did, 'moan like buggery' when they saw something in the everyday that could have been done better not being done with sufficient care and attention to detail. I think he found it an insulting comparison in the round, somebody who had not been near a pile of burning bodies thinking they had any right whatsoever to invoke the memories of those people in relation to the relatively mundane to make a point of extremely questionable substance.

He also questioned a generation that was gifted liberty, a welfare state and a peaceful Europe making such a poor fist of doing anything particuarly useful or building a legacy for the next generation. 'It is easy to be selfish, self-obsessed and incompetent...it is much harder to do things right and do the right things for people'.

He was right too
 

Alfie1014

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No melting roads that I'm aware of although some people do exaggerate. I heard a girl on her phone telling someone she would be home late as the railway lines were melting in the heat.

The A11 in Norfolk was closed in part yesterday and overnight as the road surface had lifted and it needed resurfacing.
 

Peter C

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On the comparison with those fighting on the beaches of Normany...My Grandad was a Captain in the Royal Army Service Corps, one of the last out at Dunkirk (we think the last Destroyer) and one of the first in on D-Day. Mentioned in Dispatches for bravery in taking in his men to put out a massive fire one of the first fuel ships into Cherbourg. He was nearly captured a number of times but out his foot down on his BSA and shot at a lot, part organised and lay the supply routes for the front line into Bruge and Berlin and endured the horror of being one of the first into a number of concentration camps including Belsen.

He couldn't understand it when people who had never been near a battlefield compared everyday situations with war. As he said many times, people of his generation would and frequently did, 'moan like buggery' when they saw something in the everyday that could have been done better not being done with sufficient care and attention to detail. I think he found it an insulting comparison in the round, somebody who had not been near a pile of burning bodies thinking they had any right whatsoever to invoke the memories of those people in relation to the relatively mundane to make a point of extremely questionable substance.

He also questioned a generation that was gifted liberty, a welfare state and a peaceful Europe making such a poor fist of doing anything particuarly useful or building a legacy for the next generation. 'It is easy to be selfish, self-obsessed and incompetent...it is much harder to do things right and do the right things for people'.
I agree. Why people feel as though everyone who isn't "as strong" as them wouldn't cope in war is beyond me. There's a difference between fighting at Normandy and a heatwave on a crowded train. The former is far, far worse and nothing in modern life could be compared to it.

-Peter
 

Alfie1014

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Just been reported that the OLE has parted over platform 6 at Gare du Nord (Eurostar platform) and started a fire. No Eurostar services (and other services?) UFN.
 

Peter C

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I heard a girl on her phone telling someone she would be home late as the railway lines were melting in the heat.
Melting?! Really?! "Normals" really aren't helping the fact that they are often seen as not knowing anything about the railway by enthusiasts! I've heard some strange things, but the idea of the local branchline just melting away seems quite funny. Imagine being on the 8:20 to town and then suddenly the track melt away. It would be like the Titfield Thunderbolt!

-Peter
 

HOOVER29

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It seems that every time the sun has its hat on & it’s lovely and hot this country can’t cope.
Buckled rails everywhere.
How do really hot counties cope.
Australia, India parts of America for instance.
Do their rails buckle or do they treat their rails in some way to combat this problem?
If so could we start doing it?
How much does painting the sides of the rails white help?
Is that the answer?
I’m no engineer & don’t pretend to be so welcome any explanation.
 

DarloRich

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I see this thread has descend into the usual wibble fest!

It seems that every time the sun has its hat on & it’s lovely and hot this country can’t cope.
Buckled rails everywhere.
How do really hot counties cope.
Australia, India parts of America for instance.
Do their rails buckle or do they treat their rails in some way to combat this problem?
If so could we start doing it?
How much does painting the sides of the rails white help?
Is that the answer?
I’m no engineer & don’t pretend to be so welcome any explanation.

I haven't the patience to bother anymore but perhaps someone like @Bald Rick might still be prepared to explain things. In fact i am sure he did early in this thread!
 

Peter C

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It seems that every time the sun has its hat on & it’s lovely and hot this country can’t cope.
Buckled rails everywhere.
How do really hot counties cope.
Australia, India parts of America for instance.
Do their rails buckle or do they treat their rails in some way to combat this problem?
If so could we start doing it?
How much does painting the sides of the rails white help?
Is that the answer?
I’m no engineer & don’t pretend to be so welcome any explanation.
1) Rails work by being close to each other. In hot weather, the rails expand. If the rails are close together in heat, the rails expand and then bend (or "buckle").
2) They have systems designed for hot weather.
3) We couldn't have the "hot country" system of railways here as there are too many rails.
4) White paint makes the rails cooler as when the sun shines down on those parts of the rails, the white colour reflects the heat.


-Peter
 

swt_passenger

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It seems that every time the sun has its hat on & it’s lovely and hot this country can’t cope.
Buckled rails everywhere.
How do really hot counties cope.
Australia, India parts of America for instance.
Do their rails buckle or do they treat their rails in some way to combat this problem?
If so could we start doing it?
How much does painting the sides of the rails white help?
Is that the answer?
I’m no engineer & don’t pretend to be so welcome any explanation.
Posts #5 and #31 in this thread are a good summmary.
 

Crossover

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The ECML is running well again today and my Azuma is currently on time southbound from Leeds. The Orange Army have done a fantastic job to gets things sorted in the time they have, particularly given the conditions
 

HOOVER29

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I’m just reading that in Pakistan it was 45c yesterday & trains ran normally.
Apparently our Railway tracks are designed to an operating temperature of 27c.
Yesterday we had a maximum of 38.1.
27c!!
That can be a normal summer temperature in this country.
I find that hard to swallow.
This country pioneered railway engineering did it not yet the second the sun rose yesterday Notwork Rail announces that services will have to be cancelled in anticipation of high temperatures later in the day.
In that case why bother with a Railway.
After all the wrong leaf may fall on the track or we might even have the wrong type of snow.
Is this really the same Great Britain?
 

DarloRich

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1) Rails work by being close to each other. In hot weather, the rails expand. If the rails are close together in heat, the rails expand and then bend (or "buckle").
2) They have systems designed for hot weather.
3) We couldn't have the "hot country" system of railways here as there are too many rails.
4) White paint makes the rails cooler as when the sun shines down on those parts of the rails, the white colour reflects the heat.

About the only part of this post that is accurate is part 4!
 

Howardh

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If you have a Thameslink advance St Pancras to Gatwick, will that ticket now be accepted on the Victoria - Gatwick service (not Gatwick Xp I suppose!)?
 

DarloRich

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I’m just reading that in Pakistan it was 45c yesterday & trains ran normally.
Apparently our Railway tracks are designed to an operating temperature of 27c.
Yesterday we had a maximum of 38.1.
27c!!
That can be a normal summer temperature in this country.
I find that hard to swallow.
This country pioneered railway engineering did it not yet the second the sun rose yesterday Notwork Rail announces that services will have to be cancelled in anticipation of high temperatures later in the day.
In that case why bother with a Railway.
After all the wrong leaf may fall on the track or we might even have the wrong type of snow.
Is this really the same Great Britain?

PLEASE look at posts #5 & #31 in this very thread. PLEASE. Then try to cut out the brexity bullcrud.
 

mmh

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Meanwhile, for all the we're-so-rubbish a-record-temperature-isn't-hot doom mongerers, elsewhere on the forum there are reports of powercuts in Belgium and OHLE fires in France due to, err, hot weather.

Presumably those must be "fake news"?
 

Peter C

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i no longer have the patience. @Bald Rick gave a good summery early in this ( and other) threads
OK, you're happy to tell people they're wrong, but not tell them why they're wrong... I understand that you have given a place to find info but a small explanation would be lovely.

-Peter
 

reddragon

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Melting?! Really?! "Normals" really aren't helping the fact that they are often seen as not knowing anything about the railway by enthusiasts! I've heard some strange things, but the idea of the local branchline just melting away seems quite funny. Imagine being on the 8:20 to town and then suddenly the track melt away. It would be like the Titfield Thunderbolt!

-Peter
You must watch Oh Mr Porter, even worse (or better) as the train did 'melt' away
 

DarloRich

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Meanwhile, for all the we're-so-rubbish a-record-temperature-isn't-hot doom mongerers, elsewhere on the forum there are reports of powercuts in Belgium and OHLE fires in France due to, err, hot weather.

Presumably those must be "fake news"?

surely not. all trains on the continent are perfect, punctual and never break down. Not like the useless British with their bent, lazy and incompetent employees.
 

Peter C

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Meanwhile, for all the we're-so-rubbish a-record-temperature-isn't-hot doom mongerers, elsewhere on the forum there are reports of powercuts in Belgium and OHLE fires in France due to, err, hot weather.

Presumably those must be "fake news"?
They must be! :) The French and Belgium systems never break in hot weather! Surely you must know this! :)

-Peter
 

DarloRich

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OK, you're happy to tell people they're wrong, but not tell them why they're wrong... I understand that you have given a place to find info but a small explanation would be lovely.

Like i said: I no longer have the patience to try and educate or inform people who don't care and wont listen. It is like shouting into a void. Others may still be willing to do so. I am not.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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From a tweet by a passenger to GWR about 35 - 40 minutes ago, a train was on fire in Wales yesterday. What train was this?
 

A0wen

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I’m just reading that in Pakistan it was 45c yesterday & trains ran normally.
Apparently our Railway tracks are designed to an operating temperature of 27c.
Yesterday we had a maximum of 38.1.
27c!!
That can be a normal summer temperature in this country.
I find that hard to swallow.
This country pioneered railway engineering did it not yet the second the sun rose yesterday Notwork Rail announces that services will have to be cancelled in anticipation of high temperatures later in the day.
In that case why bother with a Railway.
After all the wrong leaf may fall on the track or we might even have the wrong type of snow.
Is this really the same Great Britain?

The "operating" temperature is NOT the air temperature - it's the rail temperature.

And it's a median (go look up how averages are calculated) not the "maximum" - the point NR reasonably have been making is they need the network to be capable of working in both summer and winter most of the time - if you set the network up to accommodate the 1 or 2 days of summer heatwave without issue, there would be immediate failures in autumn at the first frost.

It's not a problem that has been unique to the UK - there were widespread issues across France yesterday as a direct consequence of the heatwave.
 
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