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First class ticket - no first class

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ARCH564

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Just a bit of advice, as a treat I booked a first class ticket on 17.16 from Cardiff Central to Holyhead wanted to have the meal and see the views. Just wondered is their anything regards compensation or is that just bad luck? Not my year booked on Scotland sleeper this year only for new carriages not to ready.... Had s refund will try again next year
 
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Melancholia

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If the train you've booked a 1st class ticket for has no 1st class facilities, then you are entitled to be refunded the difference between a Standard class, and a 1st Class fare.
 

gazthomas

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Sounds like they either took the buffet car out or substituted your train for a 158 or a 175, neither of which have first class. So yes, you should be entitled to the difference between standard and first class back. Unlucky
 

ainsworth74

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I had this happen to me last year buffet was missing from the formation due to a fault. They refunded my 1st class supplement without quibble.
 

Deepgreen

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I had this happen to me last year buffet was missing from the formation due to a fault. They refunded my 1st class supplement without quibble.
Interesting - did they consider first class as pointless without a buffet - since when has the buffet been sold as a first class-only benefit?

Here on the North Downs line we are well used to first class being advertised and not provided (and vice versa!) owing to GWR's shambolic stock rostering.
 

matt

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Interesting - did they consider first class as pointless without a buffet - since when has the buffet been sold as a first class-only benefit?

Here on the North Downs line we are well used to first class being advertised and not provided (and vice versa!) owing to GWR's shambolic stock rostering.

The only first class seating is in the buffet coach on the Cardiff to Holyhead service
 

ainsworth74

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Interesting - did they consider first class as pointless without a buffet - since when has the buffet been sold as a first class-only benefit?

Well it's a first class buffet so with no buffet there is no first class at all let alone catering!!!
 
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How would the refund be calculated for a 1st Advance ticket? The compensation due would be the difference between the price paid and the cheapest 2nd Advance available at the time of booking, but I doubt that there is any way of identifying that later. And the passenger may have chosen train A because the 1st Advance was particularly cheap on that service, even though the 2nd Advance was considerably more than on Train B which would have suited them equally well.
 

ainsworth74

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As APs consist of tiers they just compare to a standard AP in the same tier as the 1st AP and pay the difference. I believe LNER training materials have been posted on the Forum previously with a table that staff use to compare the tiers and work out which is which. I believe that that is a relatively common approach.
 

EastCoastway

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How would the refund be calculated for a 1st Advance ticket? The compensation due would be the difference between the price paid and the cheapest 2nd Advance available at the time of booking, but I doubt that there is any way of identifying that later. And the passenger may have chosen train A because the 1st Advance was particularly cheap on that service, even though the 2nd Advance was considerably more than on Train B which would have suited them equally well.
Each Advance ticket has a tier code and an equivalent code for the first and standard. So you'd get the difference between those.
 

Merseysider

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The Conditions of Travel actually refer to the difference between the price paid and "the cheapest valid standard class walk-up fare available".

That said, CrossCountry and others like LNER do refund based on the Advance tiers.
 

EastCoastway

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The Conditions of Travel actually refer to the difference between the price paid and "the cheapest valid standard class walk-up fare available".

That said, CrossCountry and others like LNER do refund based on the Advance tiers.

TOC's are generally fairer yes and give you the difference on the advance ticket difference because let's face it. If you didn't buy a 1st Class ticket then you probably would have purchased a standard class ticket at the same time and in all probability* would have purchased a standard class fare of the same tier.

*I am aware that the 1st and Std fares are different and the Std fare may have sold out before the first class fare did etc etc but it's just a way of treating what is an unfortunate event and managing expectations accordingly.
 

hermit

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How is the refund calculated if first class is unavailable for only part of the journey? This applied to me this week, when I had a First Class Advance Single from Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour (bought because it was cheaper than available Second Class). However, the train was terminated at Chichester because of the hot weather timetable change, and the journey was completed on a train with no First. ( I actually made the change at Barnham, not Chichester, as advised by the onboard staff).
 

Merseysider

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How is the refund calculated if first class is unavailable for only part of the journey? This applied to me this week, when I had a First Class Advance Single from Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour (bought because it was cheaper than available Second Class). However, the train was terminated at Chichester because of the hot weather timetable change, and the journey was completed on a train with no First. ( I actually made the change at Barnham, not Chichester, as advised by the onboard staff).
Customer service would probably consider a goodwill gesture in the region of £5-£10 rather than an exact amount for distance travelled/etc.
 

hermit

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Customer service would probably consider a goodwill gesture in the region of £5-£10 rather than an exact amount for distance travelled/etc.
Thanks. That would be a result, since the ticket only cost £11.20 in the first place. Mind you, the substitute train was a horrible and crowded Class 313 (no loo), so it would in my view be well justified.
 

hermit

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Customer service would probably consider a goodwill gesture in the region of £5-£10 rather than an exact amount for distance travelled/etc.

I now know the answer to my question: I received the normal delay repay payment, with no uplift to compensate for the lack of First Class for part of the journey. No goodwill gesture, which does not surprise me!
 

WesternLancer

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I now know the answer to my question: I received the normal delay repay payment, with no uplift to compensate for the lack of First Class for part of the journey. No goodwill gesture, which does not surprise me!
But that MAY have been because they failed to bother to read properly the basis for your claim was not (just) delay - but failure to provide First Class - so I'd complain again if you feel the time spent doing that is worth while. Unless they specifically told you that they had considered your claim ref 1st class and were not honoring it for whatever reason.

Treating all complains as if they are delay / repay claims seems to be a bit of a bad habit of TOCs these days....
 

hermit

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But that MAY have been because they failed to bother to read properly the basis for your claim was not (just) delay - but failure to provide First Class - so I'd complain again if you feel the time spent doing that is worth while. Unless they specifically told you that they had considered your claim ref 1st class and were not honoring it for whatever reason.

Treating all complains as if they are delay / repay claims seems to be a bit of a bad habit of TOCs these days....


Thanks, I suspect you are right that they didn’t read it properly. If I can find time I’ll have another go, though without any hope of getting more than a very small sum.
 
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