Cambridge to London Bridge?

smsm1 · 25 Jul 2019

MPotter said:
Why not just get a paper season ticket then?

They wear out too quickly and need to be replaced.

Basically this thread shows that ticketing around London Terminals is broken due to some trains going through the central core, so people wanting to go to the other side of London have issues with the ticketing thanks to the definition of London Terminals being not allowing cross London transfers whilst staying on the National Rail network.

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TurbostarFan · 25 Jul 2019

smsm1 said:
They wear out too quickly and need to be replaced.

Basically this thread shows that ticketing around London Terminals is broken due to some trains going through the central core, so people wanting to go to the other side of London have issues with the ticketing thanks to the definition of London Terminals being not allowing cross London transfers whilst staying on the National Rail network.

That's true. Why not just buy a ticket as when and when required?

RJ · 25 Jul 2019

smsm1 said:
They wear out too quickly and need to be replaced.

Basically this thread shows that ticketing around London Terminals is broken due to some trains going through the central core, so people wanting to go to the other side of London have issues with the ticketing thanks to the definition of London Terminals being not allowing cross London transfers whilst staying on the National Rail network.

It doesn't show any such thing. The OP wants a ticket that covers both routes into London and cross London travel. There is a ticket available that covers that - a Cambridge to London Zones 1-6 Travelcard.

What it shows is that people voluntarily complicate matters in order to pay a lower price. That is not the same thing as the system being broken.

Surreytraveller · 25 Jul 2019

RJ said:
It doesn't show any such thing. The OP wants a ticket that covers both routes into London and cross London travel. There is a ticket available that covers that - a Cambridge to London Zones 1-6 Travelcard.

What it shows is that people voluntarily complicate matters in order to pay a lower price. That is not the same thing as the system being broken.

Which is exactly the ticket which would have been required before Thameslink existed. The same issue has been experienced by people travelling on Thameslink from the south for the last 30 years - a London Thameslink ticket doesn't allow travel to Victoria / Waterloo / Charing Cross / Cannon Street. Not sure when Thameslink trains from Kent get diverted into Victoria, however?

hkstudent · 25 Jul 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Which is exactly the ticket which would have been required before Thameslink existed. The same issue has been experienced by people travelling on Thameslink from the south for the last 30 years - a London Thameslink ticket doesn't allow travel to Victoria / Waterloo / Charing Cross / Cannon Street. Not sure when Thameslink trains from Kent get diverted into Victoria, however?

I think that's all about the attempt in minimizing season ticket fare by restricting the number of valid terminals. The more the terminals, the more the train operators can be involved, thus more expensive to all commuters.

MikeWh · 26 Jul 2019

Surreytraveller said:
Not sure when Thameslink trains from Kent get diverted into Victoria, however?

Unless the staff have route knowledge it won't happen. The next two weekends see a complete closure of London Bridge platforms 1-9 and the Kentish Town to Rainham service is truncated to Dartford to Rainham.

TurbostarFan · 26 Jul 2019

MikeWh said:
Unless the staff have route knowledge it won't happen. The next two weekends see a complete closure of London Bridge platforms 1-9 and the Kentish Town to Rainham service is truncated to Dartford to Rainham.

Can you still go London to Dartford on the SE trains services?

Surreytraveller · 26 Jul 2019

MikeWh said:
Unless the staff have route knowledge it won't happen. The next two weekends see a complete closure of London Bridge platforms 1-9 and the Kentish Town to Rainham service is truncated to Dartford to Rainham.

The drivers do have route knowledge. They go there every Sunday morning. There is also a late night working into Victoria during the week, and an early one out.
A lot of Thameslink drivers on the Kent routes are actually employed by SouthEastern, who have route knowledge into Victoria

TurbostarFan · 26 Jul 2019

Surreytraveller said:
The drivers do have route knowledge. They go there every Sunday morning. There is also a late night working into Victoria during the week, and an early one out.
A lot of Thameslink drivers on the Kent routes are actually employed by SouthEastern, who have route knowledge into Victoria

Could it be due to the traction used for this route only being cleared for ECS movements?

Surreytraveller · 26 Jul 2019

MPotter said:
Could it be due to the traction used for this route only being cleared for ECS movements?

They're cleared for passenger use into Victoria. They're scheduled to go there every Sunday morning from Sevenoaks. The Rainhams probably wouldn't go to Victoria, as Thameslink drivers wouldn't sign Lewisham to Nunhead. But the Sevenoaks go there regularly

TurbostarFan · 26 Jul 2019

Surreytraveller said:
They're cleared for passenger use into Victoria. They're scheduled to go there every Sunday morning from Sevenoaks. The Rainhams probably wouldn't go to Victoria, as Thameslink drivers wouldn't sign Lewisham to Nunhead. But the Sevenoaks go there regularly

I see, what traction is used? I take it will be Class 700s?

MikeWh · 27 Jul 2019

MPotter said:
Can you still go London to Dartford on the SE trains services?

London Victoria, yes.

Surreytraveller · 27 Jul 2019

MPotter said:
I see, what traction is used? I take it will be Class 700s?

Yes, Thameslink only operates 700s. They did borrow some 465s from SouthEastern about a year or so ago for running into Victoria before the 700s were cleared

RJ · 27 Jul 2019

hkstudent said:
The difference between Cambridge - London Terminals, Cambridge - London Thameslink and Cambridge - London Zone 1-6 is not as large as the OP thinks.

For 7-day season ticket
London terminal - £ 127.70
London Thameslink - £135.70
London Zone 1-6 - £162.50

The difference is just 27% rather than 50% suggested by OP.
I think London Thameslink ticket may suit the need of OP, apart from he can't access to Liverpool Street (but valid to travel on GA to Tottenham Hale)

arb said:
How is the London Thameslink ticket valid via Tottenham Hale? It's routed "not underground", so you can't then do the tube to Finsbury Park to pick up Great Northern/Thameslink from there. Is there some obscure way of connecting Tottenham Hale to the Thameslink route via the Overground?

So I have put the route through RJIS and hkstudent is 100% correct. A Cambridge to London Thameslink ticket is valid to go via Cambridge - Tottenham Hale - Hackney Downs - Hackney Central - Highbury & Islington - Finsbury Park - St Pancras and beyond.

RJIS shows the mileage for this route as 58.8 miles and the route via Hitchin as 58.1 miles. The journey planners can show it in theory if you can get them to force that route.

My bad for expressing doubt, just goes to show that these things should be checked properly before coming to a final conclusion. It still doesn't quite reach Liverpool Street, but is probably the best one will get without shelling out for a Travelcard.

arb · 27 Jul 2019

RJ said:
So I have put the route through RJIS and hkstudent is 100% correct. A Cambridge to London Thameslink ticket is valid to go via Cambridge - Tottenham Hale - Hackney Downs - Hackney Central - Highbury & Islington - Finsbury Park - St Pancras and beyond.

RJIS shows the mileage for this route as 58.8 miles and the route via Hitchin as 58.1 miles. The journey planners can show it in theory if you can get them to force that route.

My bad for expressing doubt, just goes to show that these things should be checked properly before coming to a final conclusion. It still doesn't quite reach Liverpool Street, but is probably the one will get without shelling out for a Travelcard.

I'm equally amazed - thanks for checking it's possible. Whilst I still can't get a journey planner to show this route as valid for a destination of London Bridge, if I instead pick City Thameslink as the final destination, and then "via Dalston Kingsland", I can get National Rail Enquiries to offer me the journey via Tottenham Hale, with the £26.10 single from Cambridge to London Thameslink. For example, at 10:00 on Monday morning, I'm offered:

Cambridge 10:04 to Tottenham Hale 10:59
Tottenham Hale 11:14 to Hackney Downs 11:20
Hackney Downs to Hackney Central (walk)
Hackney Central 11:46 to Highbury & Islington 11:52
Highbury & Islington 11:58 to Finsbury Park 12:03
Finsbury Park 12:08 to City Thameslink 12:21

I assume you'll struggle to get it show that route with London Bridge as the final destination because using the tube will always be faster, whereas with City Thameslink the tube clearly isn't an option.

Hadders · 27 Jul 2019

This is very interesting, and if anything adds weight to the argument that Cambridge - London Thameslink tickets really should be valid into Liverpool Street.

londonbridge · 27 Jul 2019

Apologies if I'm misreading thngs or misunderstanding the OP's needs, but how about just going Cambridge-Liverpool Street and then walking to London Bridge?

hkstudent · 28 Jul 2019

londonbridge said:
Apologies if I'm misreading thngs or misunderstanding the OP's needs, but how about just going Cambridge-Liverpool Street and then walking to London Bridge?

I doubt it as it is possible as London Thameslink ticket restricts the availability of "terminals". OP can't get to Liverpool Street by London Thameslink ticket, but he can still travel on those London Overground trains related to Greater Anglia Route.

Ianno87 · 28 Jul 2019

hkstudent said:
I doubt it as it is possible as London Thameslink ticket restricts the availability of "terminals". OP can't get to Liverpool Street by London Thameslink ticket, but he can still travel on those London Overground trains related to Greater Anglia Route.

Presume they means by buying a London Terminals route Greater Anglia only season ticket?

Cambridge to London Bridge?

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