Peak time restrictions on journeys through London

I'm looking at NRE to check the times to go Havant-Liverpool and notice that pretty much every ticket is an Off-Peak ticket, despite some of them definitely arriving into London at peak times (when an Off-Peak ticket to London itself would not be valid).

Do the restrictions simply not apply for through journeys, or is there a separate set of restrictions?

There is something called the "NSE rule", the Network SouthEast rule, which basically goes that if you are doing a journey across London and one leg of it is wholly within the former Network SouthEast area, then that leg will be unrestricted, whereas the "InterCity" leg will take whatever restrictions a ticket from London does. Were it otherwise, some journeys would be near impossible, particularly in the evening.

It isn't applied as a formal rule, but the individual restrictions (which are set by ticket, not by train) pretty much all apply it. And staff are well aware of it, I've never been challenged when using a ticket in this way.

There are other similar cases not involving London. Yesterday I got back from a trip to Inverness made using an Off Peak Return that was to all intents and purposes an Anytime (other than not having 5 days validity on the outward) - valid any time after 0415 (and valid on the Sleeper) and break of journey unrestricted. I can't imagine they sell any Anytimes for that!

K.o.R said:

I'm looking at NRE to check the times to go Havant-Liverpool and notice that pretty much every ticket is an Off-Peak ticket, despite some of them definitely arriving into London at peak times (when an Off-Peak ticket to London itself would not be valid).

Do the restrictions simply not apply for through journeys, or is there a separate set of restrictions?

Click to expand...

The restrictions are here: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=HAV&dest=LIV&grpd=0435&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=SVR

Assuming you are travelling via Euston, the restriction for Havant to Liverpool SVR is as follows:

Not valid on trains timed to depart:

• London Euston after 04:29 and before 09:26 or after 15:00 and before 18:45 (Afternoon restrictions do not apply on Fridays)

Click to expand...

An Off Peak Return (SVR) from Havant to London has completely different restrictions as you say:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=HAV&dest=1072&tkt=SVR

Not valid on trains timed to arrive:

• London Terminals after 04:29 and before 10:00.
• Vauxhall or Clapham Junction after 04:29 and before 10:00.

Click to expand...

yorkie said:

The restrictions are here: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=HAV&dest=LIV&grpd=0435&rte=200&ldn=1&tkt=SVR

Assuming you are travelling via Eston, the restriction is as follows:

Not valid on trains timed to depart:

Click to expand...

Wow, that is a ridiculously in-depth page.

The fact that such an in-depth page is necessary is perhaps not so good.

K.o.R said:

Wow, that is a ridiculously in-depth page.

The fact that such an in-depth page is necessary is perhaps not so good.

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Some people have proposed simplifying it so that all tickets are not valid until a particular time, say, 0900 or 0930. Be careful what you wish for! However any such proposals would cause other issues, but that's for other threads!

K.o.R said:

Wow, that is a ridiculously in-depth page.

The fact that such an in-depth page is necessary is perhaps not so good.

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Simply put, if fares are simplified it will result in huge price increases which is why the train companies and DfT are so keen on the idea.

K.o.R said:

Wow, that is a ridiculously in-depth page.

The fact that such an in-depth page is necessary is perhaps not so good.

Click to expand...

That's a third party site. There's an official list here, but that isn't much better, with every London terminal having a different set of off peak times.

One complication is that you're expected to ignore the times listed on those pages unless you get on or off the train at the listed station. You can catch a train which goes through Clapham Junction at any time, but if you change train there for some reason, it says you need to wait until 9:30 first.

I wonder how this restriction make any sense?


Tues 30 Jul 2019 Sun 25 Aug 2019 Mo Tu We Th
Not valid to depart LONDON EUSTON 1501–1844 on SERCO CALEDONIAN SLEEPER

jumble said:

I wonder how this restriction make any sense?


Tues 30 Jul 2019 Sun 25 Aug 2019 Mo Tu We Th
Not valid to depart LONDON EUSTON 1501–1844 on SERCO CALEDONIAN SLEEPER

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I would say it's superfluous. It does no harm; it just has no effect.

yorkie said:

I would say it's superfluous. It does no harm; it just has no effect.

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How many superfoulous restrictions like this are there though?

It just made me spurt my tea!
*Just an off-the-cuff remark no serious together required -unless somebody wants too!

800002 said:

How many superfluous restrictions like this are there though?

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Too many to count!

Though sadly there are also some restrictions that actually do genuinely cause problems as they don't allow journeys that are contractually valid (as mentioned in post #7)