Petition for Manchester Piccadilly platforms 15 & 16

cle · 28 Jul 2019

I would have thought that wires to Rochdale could be a decent option to pursue too. Perhaps in line with Bolton-Wigan and even to Wallgate and Southport one day - trains would need somewhere to go on the other side of course.

Eventually the whole Calder line should be wired, as it's hilly, with a decent mix of stopping patterns which wires would help, and relatively high frequency between two large cities. The issue is that services tend to run off in different directions from the trunk, which are non-electrified and lower frequency.

RailUK Forums

DarloRich · 28 Jul 2019

Did Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson "green light" this procjet along with TPE eelctrifcation the other day? Or did he try the old fob off with a grand project that will take 20 years to deliver as an example of Misdirection?

Chester1 · 28 Jul 2019

DarloRich said:
Did Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson "green light" this procjet along with TPE eelctrifcation the other day? Or did he try the old fob off with a grand project that will take 20 years to deliver as an example of Misdirection?

He asked TfN to provide a route for the new line and a cost estimate before the finalisation of the Autumn spending review. The new line may use significant stretches of the Calder Valley route e.g. Manchester to Littleborough. The upgrade of the Standedge route was green lit last year but the details have not been made public. £2.9bn of funding for work during 2019-2024.

DarloRich · 28 Jul 2019

Chester1 said:
He asked TfN to provide a route for the new line and a cost estimate before the finalisation of the Autumn spending review. The new line may use significant stretches of the Calder Valley route e.g. Manchester to Littleborough. The upgrade of the Standedge route was green lit last year but the details have not been made public. £2.9bn of funding for work during 2019-2024.

so that is a maybe then

Chester1 · 28 Jul 2019

DarloRich said:
so that is a maybe then

I think the difference with May's government is substantial. She was happy to let the northern councils argue over different routes because this meant the government never had to make a decision. Boris seems to have put his weight behind the Calder Valley route and wants the final version ready to make a decision for the spending review.

DarloRich · 28 Jul 2019

Chester1 said:
I think the difference with May's government is substantial. She was happy to let the northern councils argue over different routes because this meant the government never had to make a decision. Boris seems to have put his weight behind the Calder Valley route and wants the final version ready to make a decision for the spending review.

We will see. The man is a cad and a bounder. Trust nothing he says.

duffield · 28 Jul 2019

DarloRich said:
We will see. The man is a cad and a bounder. Trust nothing he says.

And putting that aside, we are yet to see if he can command a majority in the House of Commons; given the comments of a number of Tory MPs, the unknown reaction of the DUP etc. this is entirely unknown; some Tories have claimed they will bring down the government rather than see a no-deal brexit, so whether you trust his words or not, it's not necessarily within his power to fulfil *any* promises. It would be wise to wait at least until a vote of confidence and probably until a general election before taking much notice of any medium to long term promises/plans.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2019

duffield said:
And putting that aside, we are yet to see if he can command a majority in the House of Commons; given the comments of a number of Tory MPs, the unknown reaction of the DUP etc. this is entirely unknown; some Tories have claimed they will bring down the government rather than see a no-deal brexit, so whether you trust his words or not, it's not necessarily within his power to fulfil *any* promises. It would be wise to wait at least until a vote of confidence and probably until a general election before taking much notice of any medium to long term promises/plans.

What have the Labour Party said in recent times about (1) electrification of lines between Leeds and Manchester and (2) the Calder Valley line, noting that in the run up to an election, promises issue forth in the same frequency that manna fell from the Heavens during the Israelites 40-year wandering in the desert.

faltskog36abba · 28 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Were there not either new or upgraded bay platforms at both Stalybridge and at Rochdale.

Yes there were new platforms added at the stations of Rochdale and Stalybridge - I still think in the future West facing bays are going to be needed as the station is very busy once again- With future rail growth something needs to be done, That arena isn't going anywhere soon Sadly.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2019

faltskog36abba said:
Yes there were new platforms added at the stations of Rochdale and Stalybridge - I still think in the future West facing bays are going to be needed as the station is very busy once again- With future rail growth something needs to be done, That arena isn't going anywhere soon Sadly.

Have you a location for these aspirational west-facing platforms noting the River Irwell and also the access points, if any, for any station exit as there once was in the area of platform 16 in the station prior to the building of the arena.

faltskog36abba · 28 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Have you a location for these aspirational west-facing platforms noting the River Irwell and also the access points, if any, for any station exit as there once was in the area of platform 16 in the station prior to the building of the arena.

I am only saying what was written ten years ago, I would of thought it would be at the end of platform three where the 319s are stabled-Near the old exchange station. In the booklet I have it mentioned having west facing bays-But didn't mention where. Over on Skyscraper City someone said it would be on the old platform 16 as you mentioned -Over the old track bed, Knock down or move or replace the overbridge and gain access to platforms, It must be doable as Network rail wouldn't of considered it, However its all costly and it didn't happen.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2019

faltskog36abba said:
I am only saying what was written ten years ago, I would of thought it would be at the end of platform three where the 319s are stabled-Near the old exchange station. In the booklet I have it mentioned having west facing bays-But didn't mention where. Over on Skyscraper City someone said it would be on the old platform 16 as you mentioned -Over the old track bed, Knock down or move or replace the overbridge and gain access to platforms, It must be doable as Network rail wouldn't of considered it, However its all costly and it didn't happen.

Have you visited the said area in 2019 and seen what now occupies the land space of the former Manchester Exchange railway station?

Chester1 · 28 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
What have the Labour Party said in recent times about (1) electrification of lines between Leeds and Manchester and (2) the Calder Valley line, noting that in the run up to an election, promises issue forth in the same frequency that manna fell from the Heavens during the Israelites 40-year wandering in the desert.

Labour has promised to electrify them and a large number of other lines e.g. Bristol to Penzance. Which will take priority and would be done within 5 years is another matter. Their promise is for a Crossrail the north but thats there is no detail therefore they will probably back the route chosen for NPR/HS3.

faltskog36abba · 28 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Have you visited the said area in 2019 and seen what now occupies the land space of the former Manchester Exchange railway station?

Yes I have seen its been built on[exchange station], But as I have said 2009 was when it was proposed to build platforms in that area. I still think there is enough space though to fit a single platform where Ecs are stabled- It would be ideal to terminate North wales trains if they were denied a path through the Castlefield route and easily connect with airport trains on platform three.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2019

faltskog36abba said:
Yes I have seen its been built on[exchange station], But as I have said 2009 was when it was proposed to build platforms in that area. I still think there is enough space though to fit a single platform where Ecs are stabled- It would be ideal to terminate North wales trains if they were denied a path through the Castlefield route and easily connect with airport trains on platform three.

When the new buildings on the site of the former Manchester Exchange railway station and its associated land were in preliminary discussions, would the legal teams acting for the developers have discussed in some length any possible reuse of the said land area by the railway executive who had released the said land to them, in case of future rail use such as that you propose, should such new rail use contravene any codicils that could have been inserted into the land transfer documentation to protect any new rights that would affect the existing users of this new development?

Incidentally, what distance is the ECS stabling point you refer to, to the end of Manchester Victoria station platform 3, that would require a connecting platform between those two points?

Antman · 28 Jul 2019

DarloRich said:
We will see. The man is a cad and a bounder. Trust nothing he says.

As may be. But less dangerous than a communist stooge for militant unions and a man who was so bad with numbers even Ken Livingstone fired him.

DarloRich · 28 Jul 2019

Justapunter said:
As may be. But less dangerous than a communist stooge for militant unions and a man who was so bad with numbers even Ken Livingstone fired him.

No idea what you are on about
Sorry.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2019

DarloRich said:
No idea what you are on about
Sorry.

I think he was making a comparison to the leaders of both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party.

Killingworth · 28 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
I think he was making a comparison to the leaders of both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party.

Do they use Platforms 13 and 14 or have we been switched into a different thread? Maybe we should invite them both at a busy period.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2019

Killingworth said:
Do they use Platforms 13 and 14 or have we been switched into a different thread? Maybe we should invite them both at a busy period.

It would be interesting to know the views of both those major political party leaders about this particular "in limbo" Manchester rail project that "The Dead Hand of The Grayling" had in his "Pending Tray".

Plethora · 28 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Have you visited the said area in 2019 and seen what now occupies the land space of the former Manchester Exchange railway station?

Looking at an above view from Google maps there appears to be space for at least one (shorter) bay platform at the soith side, and possibly two full ones at the north side if the P6 track is moved. Yes, this might involve some ancillary engineering work, but not as expensive as Piccadilly 15/16 is likely to be.

Xenophon PCDGS · 28 Jul 2019

Plethora said:
Looking at an above view from Google maps there appears to be space for at least one (shorter) bay platform at the soith side, and possibly two full ones at the north side if the P6 track is moved. Yes, this might involve some ancillary engineering work, but not as expensive as Piccadilly 15/16 is likely to be.

Platform 6 is on the opposite side of the running lines into Manchester Victoria railway station from the area of platform 3 there and the former Manchester Exchange railway station that was suggested by a website member as being suitable for west-facing bay platforms. See my previous posting # 315.

What length of train could use the short bay platform that you suggest on the south side?

Plethora · 28 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Platform 6 is on the opposite side of the running lines into Manchester Victoria railway station from the area of platform 3 there and the former Manchester Exchange railway station that was suggested by a website member as being suitable for west-facing bay platforms. See my previous posting # 315.

What length of train could use the short bay platform that you suggest on the south side?

I would envisage the north side bays being used for Bolton/Southport/Clitheroe services, so they are not unhelpfully aligned as I see it. Maybe I am misunderstanding, in which case could you please elaborate?

The easily accessible land on the south side looks to be around 100m long, but changes to the arena south access could likely increase this enough to accommodate a 319, which would be the most likely candidate on that side at present. The 323/331s would be fine on that basis.

Xenophon PCDGS · 29 Jul 2019

Plethora said:
I would envisage the north side bays being used for Bolton/Southport/Clitheroe services, so they are not unhelpfully aligned as I see it. Maybe I am misunderstanding, in which case could you please elaborate?

I think that the Clitheroe service in recent times has commenced at Rochdale and I have travelled on Southport to Leeds trains from the Wigan area a couple of times recently, so neither of these needed terminal lay-overs in the through platforms at Manchester Victoria station.

Plethora · 29 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
I think that the Clitheroe service in recent times has commenced at Rochdale and I have travelled on Southport to Leeds trains from the Wigan area a couple of times recently, so neither of these needed terminal lay-overs in the through platforms at Manchester Victoria station.

I thought this conversation was in the context of a Picc closure requiring increased Vic capacity? I appreciate that current service levels require no bay platforms.

Xenophon PCDGS · 29 Jul 2019

Plethora said:
I thought this conversation was in the context of a Picc closure requiring increased Vic capacity? I appreciate that current service levels require no bay platforms.

If that be the case, would it not be that the number of services that pass through the Manchester Piccadilly through platforms 13 and 14 would need a greater number of terminal bay platforms at Manchester Victoria than those suggested so far in the event of platforms 13 and 14 being closed?

DarloRich · 29 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
I think he was making a comparison to the leaders of both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party.

My views on Mr Corbyn are well know: I wouldn't trust the man to run a bath. That said I suspect that, unlike de Pfeffel, should he have an extra marital affair and get someone knocked up he would be man enough to stand up to his responsibilities.

Anyway that is widely O/T

Greybeard33 · 29 Jul 2019

Plethora said:
I thought this conversation was in the context of a Picc closure requiring increased Vic capacity? I appreciate that current service levels require no bay platforms.

Even with the current service levels, 2tph have to terminate in the through platforms at Victoria, one from Preston via Bolton and one from Wigan Wallgate via Atherton. Northern has a franchise commitment for a fourth hourly service on the Atherton line, but Network Rail has refused to offer a path for it because of the risk to punctuality performance in Manchester.

Even with a new west facing bay at Victoria, temporary closure of the Piccadilly through platforms would undoubtedly necessitate a reduction in the number of services into Manchester from the west.

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Incidentally, what distance is the ECS stabling point you refer to, to the end of Manchester Victoria station platform 3, that would require a connecting platform between those two points?

The "stabling point" is officially called the Reversing Siding. It is on the opposite side of the River Irwell to the station, just west of Sainsbury's and south of the running lines, and is long enough to accommodate a Class 319 unit.

quantinghome · 29 Jul 2019

Justapunter said:
As may be. But less dangerous than a communist stooge for militant unions and a man who was so bad with numbers even Ken Livingstone fired him.

OT, but that's well into "L is for Labour. L is for LICE!" territory...

Bletchleyite · 29 Jul 2019

quantinghome said:
OT, but that's well into "L is for Labour. L is for LICE!" territory...

I'd forgotten about that. I miss Harry Enfield's Television Programme - a proper bit of British humour.

Petition for Manchester Piccadilly platforms 15 & 16

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member