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Problem at Crewe North?

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Welshman

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Is there a problem with the track at Crewe North Junction?

For the last few days, there has been a delay in coupling the 0448 Holyhead-Euston[1R13] with the 0530 Blackpool North- Euston[1K14].

The Holyhead has been on time, and then departure delayed, waiting for the Blackpool, which has been on time at Crewe North and then taken up to 17 minutes to arrive in platform 11!
Has the Blackpool had to be shunted around Crewe in order to couple with the Holyhead?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P58596/2019/07/15/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P58518/2019/07/15/advanced

This was also the case last week, when on Tuesday, the conductor said there was a problem in coupling, but didn't explain.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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There was an odd time last week when the southbound Chester Voyager was routed into P11 at Crewe instead of the usual P6, despite P6 being empty but already set for the later South Wales service.
They delayed the northbound Chester outside the station until the southbound had departed from P11, with P6 (and P12) empty the whole time.
It struck me that maybe there was a problem reaching P6 from the Chester direction.
The upshot was chaos later at Chester as the delayed Voyager terminator arrived on P4 (ready to couple up to a Holyhead arrival) just as the TfW Holyhead connection was due to leave on P3 (cue mad rush over bridge).
The law of unintended consequences!
Given it's now the holiday period, the Voyagers were packed out with heavily laden passengers.
 
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Boodiggy

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A cracked crossing was found that has been plain lined, meaning less operational flexibility.
New crossing due sometime late August....
 

LNW-GW Joint

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A cracked crossing was found that has been plain lined, meaning less operational flexibility.
New crossing due sometime late August....

I remember a time c2000 when that diamond crossing was unusable for months.
At the time there was an infrequent NWT service Chester-Crewe-Manchester Airport, which they had to send out from P11 south west to Gresty Lane in order to reverse back through P6 and off towards Manchester...
 

Welshman

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Wondered why we got shunted half way to Alsager the other week!!ople to

That's interesting. I was wondering what the current shunt was.
Presumably you were on the 0530 portion from Blackpool North, which usually runs in to platform 6, and the 0448 from Holyhead comes in behind and then the two couple to go forward to Euston?
So is the situation now that the Holyhead runs into platform 11 and waits there as the Blackpool stops at platform 5, then goes out on to the Stoke branch to allow the driver to change ends, then approaches the Holyhead on 11 at the south end, where they couple?
 
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Not quite, the Blackpool portion came into Platform 6 (on 11 July) then went right across the fast lines towards Alsager then reversed back across once more into 11.
 

krus_aragon

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I wonder if, as the Holyhead unit was already there, the driver walked over to Platform 6 and boarded the rear of the Blackpool unit, ready to drive it back from the Alsager direction? That'd be a reason to bring it over to 6, instead of leaving it over the footbridge on 5.
 

Welshman

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I wonder if, as the Holyhead unit was already there, the driver walked over to Platform 6 and boarded the rear of the Blackpool unit, ready to drive it back from the Alsager direction? That'd be a reason to bring it over to 6, instead of leaving it over the footbridge on 5.
Possibly. The procedure seems to have become slicker with practice, as the combined train was only a few minutes late in departing towards the end of last week, compared with the first few days after the section of track was plainlined.
It hasn't been necessary this last week, of course, with Acton Grange being closed. RTT shows an empty unit has been brought over from the works to platform 11 to await the arrival of the Holyhead. But if it's going to be necessary until the end of August, as mentioned upthread, it will be interesting to see how smooth this shunt becomes.
The situation was originally reported to me by my wife, who, engrossed in her soduko simply reported they were delayed at Crewe, without paying much attention to what was going on. I suppose I should go and see for myself, but can't be bothered to prise myself out of bed at 0430 to find out. ;)
 

bluenoxid

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You can probably watch it on one of those train trackers that puts it all in a diagram form.
 

craigybagel

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It's been causing problems with the 0627 Crewe - Manchester as well. The unit for this service comes from Chester, and the only platform that normally has access both to the Chester and Manchester lines is platform 6. As that currently isn't an option the unit has to be shunted, with resulting delays.
 

Welshman

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It's been causing problems with the 0627 Crewe - Manchester as well. The unit for this service comes from Chester, and the only platform that normally has access both to the Chester and Manchester lines is platform 6. As that currently isn't an option the unit has to be shunted, with resulting delays.
That's interesting - thank you.
I thought the Holyhead/Blackpool- Euston Virgin was the only train so affected.
 

craigybagel

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That's interesting - thank you.
I thought the Holyhead/Blackpool- Euston Virgin was the only train so affected.

No problem. There's a Sunday service as well, 0829 Crewe - Manchester which comes ECS from Chester and has the same issue.

What I don't understand is why Virgin are needing to do the shunt. Whilst the only through platforms you can access to/from the Chester lines are 11 and 12 at present, both of those platforms are accessible from Warrington so why aren't the Blackpool services going straight in there?
 

Welshman

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Actually, I'd wondered that myself, but they won't reveal why to me, of course.
I was hoping they'd be more forthcoming to one like yourself with professional status ;)
 

krus_aragon

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What I don't understand is why Virgin are needing to do the shunt. Whilst the only through platforms you can access to/from the Chester lines are 11 and 12 at present, both of those platforms are accessible from Warrington so why aren't the Blackpool services going straight in there?
Would they need to use the damaged crossover that stops P6 from being accessible (from Chester)?
 

Welshman

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Would they need to use the damaged crossover that stops P6 from being accessible (from Chester)?

I might be being particularly thick here, but if the damaged crossing has been plain-lined [as in #3 upthread], then they could have maintained either access from Chester to 6, or from the North to 11 and 12.
As the former has been lost, then surely the latter is still available. And according to RTT, some Birmingham-Liverpool trains are still using 11 as usual.
 

craigybagel

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I might be being particularly thick here, but if the damaged crossing has been plain-lined [as in #3 upthread], then they could have maintained either access from Chester to 6, or from the North to 11 and 12.
As the former has been lost, then surely the latter is still available. And according to RTT, some Birmingham-Liverpool trains are still using 11 as usual.

That's my understanding of the situation. They've actually removed one of the rails over a section a few metres long on the line between the Chester line and platform 6.
 

driver_m

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The diamond has been part plain lined. I have seen trains going North from 11 but I haven’t seen anything go from the up fast into 11. So maybe it’s not possible for that move to happen at the moment for whatever reason. You definitely can’t head to/from Chester into/out of 6 though.
 

Class 170101

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But that would suggest Platform 9 is consequently out of Use yet I have just seen a train (1K73) run into it.
 

LeylandLen

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I thought nothing of this before but reading this thread thought I had better mention it
Today Sat ,1A20 the 0755 Voyager Holyhead to Euston entered Crewe as normal from the Chester line went into, I assume P11 as had the preceding service;.from Holyhead. It then appeared to reverse onto the down slow in order to get to P6; obviously a bi-directional line.Another train due to use P6 at this time was held up. Looking back at RTT it was right time at Steel works but left Crewe P6 42mins late.
 

craigybagel

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But that would suggest Platform 9 is consequently out of Use yet I have just seen a train (1K73) run into it.
Platform 9 isn't effected. The line into 9 splits off from the line into 6 before the problem diamond. It's the diamond closest to the heritage centre - one line is the line from 6 towards Chester (currently missing part of a rail and closed), the other is the line from the WCML into platforms 10-12. You can see which line is closed very easily at Crewe as it's already rusty.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I thought nothing of this before but reading this thread thought I had better mention it
Today Sat ,1A20 the 0755 Voyager Holyhead to Euston entered Crewe as normal from the Chester line went into, I assume P11 as had the preceding service;.from Holyhead. It then appeared to reverse onto the down slow in order to get to P6; obviously a bi-directional line.Another train due to use P6 at this time was held up. Looking back at RTT it was right time at Steel works but left Crewe P6 42mins late.

The "normal" routeing is for Chester-Euston Voyagers to use P6 and Euston-Chester to use P11, often in the station at the same time.
They are both reversible and so is P12 if things are very busy.
P6 is now unusable for Chester trains, which means congestion on P11 (usually), with trains held outside until clear.
P9/10 bays are still available for Chester terminators.
 

Class 170101

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Platform 9 isn't effected. The line into 9 splits off from the line into 6 before the problem diamond. It's the diamond closest to the heritage centre - one line is the line from 6 towards Chester (currently missing part of a rail and closed), the other is the line from the WCML into platforms 10-12. You can see which line is closed very easily at Crewe as it's already rusty.

Unfortunately I am not there so I'll take your word about the rusty rails.

What I don't understand is why the shunt for the Holyhead / Blackpool North attacher is required. If Platform 6 cannot be used can the trains just be routed normally to Platform 11 (or 12) instead without the need for reversals?

(EDIT Observing via Open Train Times map)
 

driver_m

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Just to confirm that trains from Up Fast, cannot currently access pl10,11,12 and loop. That is why the procedure happens the way it does.
 
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