TRIVIA: Third Rail and OLE in same station.

swt_passenger · 29 Jul 2019

Saperstein said:
Thanks @swt_passenger I was thinking about some time ago, must have been back in Silverlink days when I remember a voltage changeover there.

Saperstein.

Ah yes, that’s clarified what you probably correctly remembered. I remember there were a number of places along the eastern end of the NLL where there were changes between voltages, I’m sure someone might know exactly where they were, in fact I think there were some short sections that had both supplies available? I reckon it was all rationalised to AC around the time LO moved over to the new high level platforms at Stratford, and about the same time the four tracking through Caledonian Rd was completed?

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Elecman · 29 Jul 2019

alangla said:
Hunts Cross? Does the 3rd rail not cross the OHLE at some point near there?

Nope stops before Hunts cross

Bald Rick · 29 Jul 2019

swt_passenger said:
Ah yes, that’s clarified what you probably correctly remembered. I remember there were a number of places along the eastern end of the NLL where there were changes between voltages, I’m sure someone might know exactly where they were, in fact I think there were some short sections that had both supplies available? I reckon it was all rationalised to AC around the time LO moved over to the new high level platforms at Stratford, and about the same time the four tracking through Caledonian Rd was completed?

Changeovers were (going westbound, Stratford to Richmond):

Hackney Wick (D.C. to AC)
Dalston Kingsland (AC to D.C.)
Camden Rd (D.C. to AC)
Acton Town (AC to D.C.)

Strictly speaking, the first two didn’t need to happen, as it was dual electrified from Channelsea South Jn (just outside Stratford) to Dalston Western Jn (where the 2 lines split to 3/4). However the power supply on D.C. wasn’t up to much - the trains were limited to notch 2 running in D.C. IIRC - and running on D.C. also did nasty things to the track circuits, so AC was preferred except if it was off for any reason.

It was all made AC following the long blockade for remodelling / rebuilding etc in the summer of 2010. Except for the Acton - Richmond section.

Bald Rick · 29 Jul 2019

coppercapped said:
Ealing Broadway - but does 4th rail count?

AM9 said:
Other than to RUK pedants, no.

4th rail doesn’t count, but the third rail next but one to it surely does?

In which case, West Ham, Barking, Upminster. And possibly even Limehouse for third rail only!

swt_passenger · 29 Jul 2019

Bald Rick said:
Changeovers were (going westbound, Stratford to Richmond):

Hackney Wick (D.C. to AC)
Dalston Kingsland (AC to D.C.)
Camden Rd (D.C. to AC)
Acton Town (AC to D.C.)

Strictly speaking, the first two didn’t need to happen, as it was dual electrified from Channelsea South Jn (just outside Stratford) to Dalston Western Jn (where the 2 lines split to 3/4). However the power supply on D.C. wasn’t up to much (the trains were limited to notch 2 runnnig in D.C. IIRC) and running on D.C. also did nasty things to the track circuits, so AC was preferred except if it was off for any reason.

It was all made AC following the long blockade for remodelling / rebuilding etc in the summer of 2010. Except for the Acton - Richmond section.

Thanks. Hackney Wick was one place that had completely defeated my memory...

Bald Rick · 29 Jul 2019

swt_passenger said:
Thanks. Hackney Wick was one place that had completely defeated my memory...

A wise tactic in the normal course of events.

Cricketer8for9 · 29 Jul 2019

Stratford used to have four types of electrification. 25kv AC, 750 volt third rail top contact, 750 volt third rail bottom contact (DLR) and 650 volt fourth rail (London Underground). I doubt anywhere has hand more.

Greybeard33 · 29 Jul 2019

alangla said:
Hunts Cross? Does the 3rd rail not cross the OHLE at some point near there?

The OLE overruns from Allerton Junction now terminate before Hunts Cross West Junction, where the Merseyrail line crosses the CLC main line. East from here there is an OLE electrified headshunt from Allerton depot that extends along the formation about halfway to Hunts Cross station, but that track is north of the Merseyrail track and there is no connection between them.

The physical separation between the OLE and 3rd rail tracks in this area avoids the earthing, structure corrosion and signal immunisation issues that arise when AC and DC electrification overlap.

Kneedown · 29 Jul 2019

Until only a few years ago the OHLE did extend along the Cheshire lines towards Hunts Cross station (although no ac traction was booked to traverse this section to the best of my knowledge) All OHLE equipment was removed after the wires came down one fine day.

Greybeard33 · 29 Jul 2019

When Allerton depot was re-electrified at 25kV for Northern's 319s a few years ago, the eastern exit to the Cheshire lines was disconnected, leaving the re-electrified headshunt isolated from the 3rd rail line alongside.

jopsuk · 30 Jul 2019

Stratford has:
25kV OHLE on the mainline, NLL, Lee Valley platforms
630V 3rd&4th rail on the Central and Jubilee line platfoms
750V DC (bottom contact) on the DLR platforms

it used to have a fourth, with 750V (top contact) on the old Woolwich/North London Line

(and yes, the mainline way back was a different voltage. But that wasn't concurrent with 25kV or the DLR)

Alfie1014 · 30 Jul 2019

Bald Rick said:
4th rail doesn’t count, but the third rail next but one to it surely does?

In which case, West Ham, Barking, Upminster. And possibly even Limehouse for third rail only!

Beat me to it!

Chris217 · 30 Jul 2019

Not a station I know
But didn't Crewe International Electric depot used to have a stretch of 3rd rail
for class 92 testing?

Aa for Liverpool Lime Street
The underground is classed as platform 1
whilst upstairs is platform 2-10.

South Parkway used to be 2 Stations
Garston(Merseyrail platforms 5/6) and.Allerton (mainline platforms1-4)

Great topic btw

Railwaysceptic · 30 Jul 2019

The West London Line between North Pole Junction and the A40 Westway overbridge. No stations, mind you.

Mikey C · 30 Jul 2019

AM9 said:
To expand that out by specifying only stations where both types of electric trains stop at adjacent platforms:
Euston, Wembley Central, Harrow & Wealdstone, Bushey and Watford Junction.

Or indeed Willesden Junction where the AC Overground "North London Line" platforms go over the DC Overground Watford to Euston (and Bakerloo) platforms!

AM9 · 30 Jul 2019

Mikey C said:
Or indeed Willesden Junction where the AC Overground "North London Line" platforms go over the DC Overground Watford to Euston (and Bakerloo) platforms!

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that.

ijmad · 30 Jul 2019

Peter C said:
The tunnels down to Moorgate are 3rd Rail only and the lines beyond the Finsbury Park end of the station are not served by 3rd rail and are OHLE only.

-Peter

Finsbury Park has third rail (and fourth) if you count the tube lines

Bald Rick · 30 Jul 2019

Railwaysceptic said:
The West London Line between North Pole Junction and the A40 Westway overbridge. No stations, mind you.

And a pantograph graveyard (including a new addition last week).

ChiefPlanner · 31 Jul 2019

Bald Rick said:
And a pantograph graveyard (including a new addition last week).

Ah yes - the "WLL Lost pan club" - there used to be a record kept of members , Eurostar retired with honours when they transferred to Stratford , Sandling was another risky spot for pan losses. .

Movements off the NLL to the downstairs bay at Willesden Low Level were always candidates for a mistake (WS23 signal from memory) - where the pan had to dropped and DC engaged. One evening an empty 313 making this move , "forgot" - so he lost the pan on the way down , which regrettably landed across the up DC line - creating a magnificent arc and for good measure was run into by a southbound Bakerloo line. This caused a serious track fire , which spread to the embankment and for good measure went through the signalling cables. An expensive mistake which caused 24 hours worth of disruption.

This unfortunate driver , one return to duty , found some of his mates had attached to his locker a panoramic photo of the remains of central Lisbon after a catastrophic fire some years earlier , with captions changed to read "Willesden Junction today" :lol:

......

TheSel · 31 Jul 2019

Chris217 said:
Not a station I know
But didn't Crewe International Electric depot used to have a stretch of 3rd rail
for class 92 testing?

Aa for Liverpool Lime Street
The underground is classed as platform 1
whilst upstairs is platform 2-10.

South Parkway used to be 2 Stations
Garston(Merseyrail platforms 5/6) and.Allerton (mainline platforms1-4)

Great topic btw

Not quite.

Garston station was a seperate station, a couple of hundred yards west of the site of Platforms 5 & 6 of Liverpool South Parkway, and was replaced by LSP when it opened. You can just about make out the site from the train, but road access is now fenced off - a service road for buses and passenger drop off linked Island Road to Woolton Road (one way in this direction).

And since remodelling, the main concourse at Liverpool Lime Street has platforms 1 - 10 (and 0, although this is not available for use) - see map below from this link.

However, even the National Rail Enquiries website seems less than clear, as it refers to both the 'Main Line' platform '01' and the Merseyrail Wirral Line Underground platform as '1', as this screenshot shows:

Saperstein · 31 Jul 2019

TheSel said:
And since remodelling, the main concourse at Liverpool Lime Street has platforms 1 - 10 (and 0, although this is not available for use) - see map below from this link.

View attachment 66464

However, even the National Rail Enquiries website seems less than clear, as it refers to both the 'Main Line' platform '01' and the Merseyrail Wirral Line Underground platform as '1', as this screenshot shows:

View attachment 66463

RTT have got it listed as “L” i.e. Low Level.

The Merseyrail app shows it as “Lime Street Lower Level” Then they mention “Platform 1.”

507 001 · 31 Jul 2019

There’s always been a High Level platform 1 and a Low Level platform 1. Despite coming under the same station code (LIV) they’re essentially two separate stations.

TheSel · 31 Jul 2019

507 001 said:
There’s always been a High Level platform 1 and a Low Level platform 1. Despite coming under the same station code (LIV) they’re essentially two separate stations.

Well, not quite "always". Low Level didn't exist until the 1970's.

507 001 · 31 Jul 2019

TheSel said:
Well, not quite "always". Low Level didn't exist until the 1970's.

Good lord. :rolleyes:

Djgr · 1 Aug 2019

Shar

507 001 said:
There’s always been a High Level platform 1 and a Low Level platform 1. Despite coming under the same station code (LIV) they’re essentially two separate stations.

Sharing a lift!

frediculous · 1 Aug 2019

Mag_seven said:
Wimbledon if you include the OLE on the tram platforms.

Birkbeck is another on the Trams.
At Beckenham Junction the trams are outside the station area

sharpley · 1 Aug 2019

Grabbing at straws now but the Old Dalby test track has 4th rail and OHLE together for several miles. It includes a number of stopping points to simulate stations (for LUL S stock testing)

Surreytraveller · 1 Aug 2019

Bald Rick said:
And a pantograph graveyard (including a new addition last week).

A new addition? Or was it two new additions?

Bald Rick · 1 Aug 2019

Surreytraveller said:
A new addition? Or was it two new additions?

Just the one

Surreytraveller · 1 Aug 2019

Bald Rick said:
Just the one

I thought it was an 8-car?

TRIVIA: Third Rail and OLE in same station.

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