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New trains for East Midlands Franchise

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InTheEastMids

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‘How are Abellio going to turn the Class 180 fleet into a train that’s reliable?’

“Abellio intend to invest time, effort and money to ensure they are as reliable as the existing Class 222 fleet, working with other industry partners to help achieve this. It is the intention that this fleet will be maintained by Bombardier.”
Considering all of the issues that GWR are having with their 800’s, is it wise that EMR order a train based on the AT300 design? You could argue that Hitachi will have learned from the mistakes but will that be the case?

Yes, lessons of overheating diesel engines will be learned by (according to forum speculation) having *more* carriages with engines under them, and making the carriages about 2m shorter. What can possibly go wrong?

Oh.

[Edited]
 
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Bletchleyite

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Yes, lessons of overheating diesel engines will be learned by (avoiding to forum speculation) having *more* carriages with engines under them, and making the carriages about 2m shorter. What can possibly go wrong?

Oh.

Is this overheating issue (that seems to be affecting more than just 80x) to do with new emissions regulations on diesel engines? It's not like an underfloor-engined DMU is a new thing, and yet 15x never seem to suffer the issue but 80x and 230s (at least) do.
 

samuelmorris

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Yes, lessons of overheating diesel engines will be learned by (according to forum speculation) having *more* carriages with engines under them, and making the carriages about 2m shorter. What can possibly go wrong?

Oh.

[Edited]
It might seem counter-intuitive but that should help - having too few engines on the 800/802 means they're underpowered for what they need to achieve, thus need to be worked very hard and that's what brings about overheating.
 

hwl

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Is this overheating issue (that seems to be affecting more than just 80x) to do with new emissions regulations on diesel engines? It's not like an underfloor-engined DMU is a new thing, and yet 15x never seem to suffer the issue but 80x and 230s (at least) do.
My guess is that Hitachi didn't do enough modelling when designing the skirts. MTU have been supplying power packs for along time so unlikely to have ballsed up as they work ok in other countries on other stock...
The point about the new emission regs is that DOC, DPF and SCR mean that more heat is retained in the engine area instead of coming out of the exhaust so more passive cooling is needed which generally means less aerodynamic skirt and more drag...

TfL bus operators had to hack plenty of extra holes in the back of London busses to stop them over heating after exhaust system retro fits to older busses.
Hitachi even went for mesh skirts on the 465s they retractioned to improve traction electronic cooling.
 

supervc-10

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I wonder if adaptive grills, as fitted to some BMW and Ford cars, might be a good idea. They open up when needed and then close again when the extra cooling isn't required.
 

Jozhua

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Heard EMR was supposed to be making an announcement soon in regards to their IC fleet?

Anyone know if they have made the announcement or if there is a likely date for us to find out? Is there a chance that the information on rolling stock longer term will be left until the new franchise comes in?
 

RealTrains07

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Heard EMR was supposed to be making an announcement soon in regards to their IC fleet?

Anyone know if they have made the announcement or if there is a likely date for us to find out? Is there a chance that the information on rolling stock longer term will be left until the new franchise comes in?
Iam surprised they havent made any more announcements before now considering they start in just over 2 weeks time
 

Scott1

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Heard EMR was supposed to be making an announcement soon in regards to their IC fleet?

Anyone know if they have made the announcement or if there is a likely date for us to find out? Is there a chance that the information on rolling stock longer term will be left until the new franchise comes in?

The announcement is expected later this week now. They have confirmed that 153's will be temporarily replaced with 156s to remove single car working.


https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/takeover-derby-train-services-lead-3149907
 

LowLevel

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The executive team has been announced today with new stock announcement now later this week.
 

RealTrains07

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"Not awarding the contract to Bombardier sends conflicting messages and it is important that Abellio does not get off on the wrong foot locally."

Rubbish! Bombardier dont need any more contracts, their already 200 units behind as it is!
(Yes they might catch up quite quickly but compared to hitachi and CAF they are miles ahead compared to bombardier)

Plus why do we need more poor quality cheap plastic looking trains on the network.

I doubt passengers will care where they come from. Just as long as their good quality service which runs on time
 

F Great Eastern

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"Not awarding the contract to Bombardier sends conflicting messages and it is important that Abellio does not get off on the wrong foot locally."

Rubbish! Bombardier dont need any more contracts, their already 200 units behind as it is!
(Yes they might catch up quite quickly but compared to hitachi and CAF they are miles ahead compared to bombardier)

Some would argue that Bombardier's issue is that they have took too many contracts on and they have not been able to deliver them either with the relevant quality or on time. They are too obsessed with winning contracts these days with not enough focus on sensible planning, realistic timescales and quality control.

If any company is a shoo in for a contract the quality will drop, a proper competitive marketplace is vital in the rolling stock market to drive down prices and to drive up standards and quality.
 

RealTrains07

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Some would argue that Bombardier's issue is that they have took too many contracts on and they have not been able to deliver them either with the relevant quality or on time. They are too obsessed with winning contracts these days with not enough focus on sensible planning, realistic timescales and quality control.

If any company is a shoo in for a contract the quality will drop, a proper competitive marketplace is vital in the rolling stock market to drive down prices and to drive up standards and quality.

No wonder they try and suit companies when they dont get train contracts:lol:
 

talltim

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I wonder if adaptive grills, as fitted to some BMW and Ford cars, might be a good idea. They open up when needed and then close again when the extra cooling isn't required.
And many diesel locos such as the Serck radiator fitted 47s
 

43096

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The executive team has been announced today with new stock announcement now later this week.
Any names you can give us.

If they have any sense, Abellio would take the EMT management team.
 

jfowkes

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Here's a question: will EMR continue to charge for WiFi in standard? EMT are one of the few TOC that still do, it would be nice if that went away.
 

londonmidland

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Here's a question: will EMR continue to charge for WiFi in standard? EMT are one of the few TOC that still do, it would be nice if that went away.

Free WiFi will be available. I’m sure it’s now a requirement for all new TOC’s to offer free WiFi?
 

Jozhua

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Free WiFi will be available. I’m sure it’s now a requirement for all new TOC’s to offer free WiFi?

Well, it will come in handy when sat on a on fire 180 for 3 hours...

Free WiFi is good for some occasions, but honestly 4G and the large amounts of data available for low prices makes it seem less relevant. I guess at least TOCs can leverage the great mobile connectivity and data available for their onboard WiFi and for little investment, probably brings an improvement to a few people!
 

RealTrains07

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Well, it will come in handy when sat on a on fire 180 for 3 hours...

Free WiFi is good for some occasions, but honestly 4G and the large amounts of data available for low prices makes it seem less relevant. I guess at least TOCs can leverage the great mobile connectivity and data available for their onboard WiFi and for little investment, probably brings an improvement to a few people!
While on a train generally 4G is awful on the majority of routes. Shame no company can get the wifi connectivity perfect
 

jfowkes

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While on a train generally 4G is awful on the majority of routes. Shame no company can get the wifi connectivity perfect

Yeah 4G signal quality is the issue. I can tether my phone to my laptop, but it eats battery life trying to stay connected and often drops the connection as it jumps between cells. For that reason I always go for coach with standard+1st on EMT 222s just so I can get the free WiFi.
 

edwin_m

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222s seem particularly bad for 4G connection, often reverting to 3G when I get 4G for most of the journey on an HST. Possibly something to do with the shiny film on the windows?
 

InTheEastMids

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222s seem particularly bad for 4G connection, often reverting to 3G when I get 4G for most of the journey on an HST. Possibly something to do with the shiny film on the windows?

I understand that the 222 windows have a metalised coating, presumably to reduce solar gain. It basically turns the 222 into a Faraday cage. Your phone whacks up the power to get a signal, which batters the battery. Free and well-peforming WiFi will be a good upgrade that EMR should be able to deliver pretty quickly.
 
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Note the 'Derby Telegraph' report referred to earlier also states that the regional fleet will be FULLY replaced (by December 2021)
 

bb21

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222s seem particularly bad for 4G connection, often reverting to 3G when I get 4G for most of the journey on an HST. Possibly something to do with the shiny film on the windows?
I was informed by EMT back in 2013 that something would be done to boost reception on the 222s. Fast forward to 2019 reception is still piss poor for large sections of the route (non-existent for long stretches). Mainly for that reason (and ever increasingly the state of 222 interiors) I avoid them like the plague. I would wait for the HST behind even if it would make me 30+ minutes later. Very little work can be done on the journey otherwise.

If WiFi on EMR is going to be as bad as currently, I wouldn't bother. To me improving 4G reception onboard is going to be the most useful improvement, if at all.
 

I13

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Here's the press release:
Abellio chooses British-based train manufacturer – Hitachi Rail to build 165 intercity carriages as part of complete fleet replacement First stage of investment in East Midlands Railway to provide more seats, more services, faster trains and better stations for passengers



Abellio UK, recently awarded the new eight-year East Midlands Railway (EMR) franchise by the Department for Transport, has today confirmed that it has now awarded a £400 million contract to Hitachi Rail to build a pioneering new fleet of intercity trains.

The new state of the art intercity trains will start operating in 2022 and will serve the main cities and towns on the Midland Main Line including Sheffield, Chesterfield, Nottingham, Derby, Leicester and Lincoln as well as Kettering and London St Pancras.

Modern and greener trains for East Midlands Railway

The new trains will offer significant advances on the existing fleet, with passengers benefiting from more seats and modern interiors. Abellio has ordered 33 five-carriage trains, which will regularly be operated in 10-carriage formations. The trains will include features that passengers and local stakeholders have said they want to see, including air conditioning, free Wi-Fi throughout, plug sockets and better passenger information screens. There will be an improved and more consistent ‘seven day’ catering service in both 1st and Standard Class.

The new Hitachi trains are quieter and greener, meaning lower carbon emissions and a better environment for passengers, stations and communities along the route. They have the ability to run using electric overhead lines wherever possible, taking advantage of the £1.5 billion Midland Main Line upgrade and, when running in diesel mode, will cut harmful emissions (particulate matter) by up to 90% compared to the legacy High Speed Trains.

Hitachi’s strong track record of supporting East Midlands businesses

Today’s new order for Hitachi will benefit suppliers across the country and, in particular, the East Midlands. Hitachi’s UK train factory at Newton Aycliffe, Co. Durham has worked with 65 different suppliers from the East Midlands, awarding various multi-million-pound contracts to support skills and high-quality jobs in the region.

Since opening in 2015, Hitachi’s state-of-the-art manufacturing facility has already delivered over 450 intercity train carriages into passenger service in the UK and, where services are in operation, passenger satisfaction rates have been boosted. Based on Japanese bullet train technology, the new fleet for EMR is the sixth intercity fleet that Hitachi will deliver to UK train operators.

Hitachi’s proven capability to deliver modern intercity trains is a key factor in being awarded the contract and Hitachi’s skilled train maintenance team will maintain and service the new fleet at EMR’s Etches Park depot in Derby supporting high quality engineering jobs in the East Midlands region.

The funding package for these new Hitachi trains is led by Rock Rail and the fleet will be financed through Rock Rail East Midlands Plc. and leased to Abellio for the life of the franchise. As with Rock Rail’s previous new rolling stock deals, debt will be provided by institutional investor organisations (pension funds and insurance companies).

Commenting on the order, Dominic Booth, Abellio (UK) Managing Director said:

“These new trains form the centrepiece of our ambitious plans for a complete replacement of all the trains on the East Midlands Railway and are a more than £600 million investment to really improve the region’s railway. They will respond to what our passengers have told us they want with more frequent services, faster journeys between the East Midlands and London, and provide more capacity with 80% more seats into London in the morning peak”.

Karen Boswell, Managing Director for Hitachi Rail UK, welcomed the positive news for British railway workers: “Today’s announcement will be welcomed in workshops and engineering centres across the country, thanks to our large network of UK suppliers. Our train factory in County Durham sources train parts from across the country, including a significant amount from the region where the new trains will run.

“Hitachi is delighted that EMR passengers will soon be receiving the very latest model of our new intercity trains, which are already proving popular and increasing satisfaction among passengers in other parts of the country”.

Mark Swindell, Chief Executive Officer, Rock Rail, which is financing the trains, said:

“Rock Rail is delighted to be working with Abellio and Hitachi and our institutional investor partners to bring these trains to the region and deliver step changes in the travelling experience for the people of the East Midlands.

“This new state-of-the-art Hitachi fleet represents Rock Rail’s fourth new rolling stock deal in the UK, and across all deals combined sees investment by the institutional investor sector of around £2.5bn in the UK railway. This long term, highly competitive funding enables significantly enhanced value for money to rail passengers and tax payers over the life of the trains, along with significant improvements in passenger, environmental and operational features.”

Hitachi Rail is a global transport specialist with over 100 years of experience building pioneering trains, offering quality maintenance and developing innovative new technology. As a leader in rail we’re improving transport for passengers, connecting communities and helping to boost the UK’s economy.

Having delivered the hugely popular Javelin HS1 fleet in advance of the 2012 London Games, Hitachi is delivering major orders for new trains, with 286 due to be in service by the end of 2021. Our purpose-built factory in County Durham is delivering 122 new high speed trains as part of the UK Government’s £5.7bn Intercity Express Programme and a fleet of 70 regional trains for Scotland. With a proud reputation for innovation, Hitachi is at the forefront of using new digital technology to enhance passenger experience and enrich Britain’s railway’s heritage. Hitachi Rail is growing rapidly, employing over 3,000 people and soon to be operational at 15 locations across the UK.

https://amp.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hitac...achi-trains-for-east-midlands-railway-2902003
 
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