Glenn1969
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Only 4tph in afternoon peak from 1450 to 2020(except 1950). Is that the same as now?
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December 2019 Timetable Change
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Siemens Staines
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1505, 1535 & 2005 are indeed new trains but I thought the plan was to go 4tph throughout the day on Waterloo - Reading? In fact the lack of 1950 means that some stations will go an hour between trains. Personally I think 4tph is unnecessary throughout the day, and the short turnrounds at both ends of the line would reduce resilience to the slightest of delays, which is precisely why Stagecoach introduced the current timetable pattern.
swt_passenger
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Certainly seems no obvious change. I was looking specifically at the Southampton area, and nothing obviously new appears there either.
HamworthyGoods
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There will be a 19.50 WAT-RDG as now. We are way ahead of timetable confirmation and there will be missing/incorrect trains etc
Staffordian
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As have c2c and Chiltern.
Phil from Mon
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As I understand from earlier posts on here, and talking with the crews themselves, that is the idea. Whether it will be the case in December we will have to wait and see.
brad465
Established Member
Do you have a link/source to this? (tried searching online to no luck
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TVLUser
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If you head to the Advanced Search on Realtime Trains (RTT): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced, and search accordingly for an SE station post December TT change, you should find the new schedules there.
swt_passenger
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I believe what is being meant here is that sites such as realtimetrains and opentraintimes can now be searched for services after the change date.Do you have a link/source to this? (tried searching online to no luck
You aren’t going to find timetables as such for quite a while...
Staffordian
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The latest TOC’s with Dec 19 times on RTT are Greater Anglia (LE) and TfL Rail(XR) which includes half hourly services Paddington to Reading.
Looking at Greater Anglia, some Norwich to Cambridge trains extended to Stansted are in there, including calls at Waterbeach in the evening peak:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L46780/2019/12/23/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L41833/2019/12/23/advanced
They generally have the same time slot as now, give or take a few minutes, when doing Norwich to Stansted, but are quite often approx 20 minutes later than now when doing Stansted to Norwich.
The 1822 Cambridge to Ely shuttle, one of my favourite trains for commuting home, has gone
This is presumably to make room for what was the 1811 Cambridge to Norwich, which now comes from Stansted and departs Cambridge at 1830.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L46780/2019/12/23/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L41833/2019/12/23/advanced
They generally have the same time slot as now, give or take a few minutes, when doing Norwich to Stansted, but are quite often approx 20 minutes later than now when doing Stansted to Norwich.
The 1822 Cambridge to Ely shuttle, one of my favourite trains for commuting home, has gone
This is presumably to make room for what was the 1811 Cambridge to Norwich, which now comes from Stansted and departs Cambridge at 1830.
0B00
Member
TfW also adding the Crewe-Shrewsbury stopping service on Sundays from the Dec 19 timetable too.
dk1
Veteran Member
I owe you an apology. It appears that according to Realtime Trains not only is Ipswich-Cambridge going hourly on Sundays but so is the East Suffolk line. Most Norwich-Cambridge services will be extended to/from Stansted Airport daily which has amazed me. No driver training has taken place so it must be with crew changeovers at either Ely or Cambridge. Really need to get these Stadlers up & running & watching with interest to see if the first one makes into traffic tomorrow aftervthe failed start last week.
dk1
Veteran Member
To add to the above Norwich-Lowestoft also goes hourly on Sundays (currently Summer only) which means Ipswich-Peterborough is the only Anglia local route that's now not hourly on a Sunday. A total contrast to 15 years ago.
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...they’ve added another minute of timetable padding between Cambridge and Tottenham Hale. Currently 56 minutes, was 55 not so long ago, now 57 from December, on the hourly ‘fast’ (or 69, was 68, now to be 70, on the hourly ‘slow’). Aren’t improvements great?
Plus I see the 1814 ‘gap’ from Cambridge North remains - currently due to the usual xx14 to Liverpool Street being missed out this one hour, it means there is nothing going south from Cambridge North between 1755 and 1831, which is very unhelpful in the evening peak. Looks like this isn’t going to be fixed in December
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Class 170101
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...
...they’ve added another minute of timetable padding between Cambridge and Tottenham Hale. Currently 56 minutes, was 55 not so long ago, now 57 from December, on the hourly ‘fast’ (or 69, was 68, now to be 70, on the hourly ‘slow’). Aren’t improvements great?
Plus I see the 1814 ‘gap’ from Cambridge North remains - currently due to the usual xx14 to Liverpool Street being missed out this one hour, it means there is nothing going south from Cambridge North between 1755 and 1831, which is very unhelpful in the evening peak. Looks like this isn’t going to be fixed in December
I think you will find Cambridge is the problem here - 1H80 simply cannot get into one of the through platforms to get to Cambridge North.
EMR/ Abellio are still awaiting info from Network Rail with regards to the transfer of this route
In which case it would be nice if someone mitigated the issue. Eg. there are two ECS Ely->Cambridge moves during this gap at Cambridge North, one GA and one GN. Seems like one of those could run in service.
As it is, this 37 minute gap in southbound services from CMB is the longest gap between trains all day. And it is right in the peak
...
...they’ve added another minute of timetable padding between Cambridge and Tottenham Hale. Currently 56 minutes, was 55 not so long ago, now 57 from December, on the hourly ‘fast’ (or 69, was 68, now to be 70, on the hourly ‘slow’). Aren’t improvements great?
It's because the (current) xx04 Liverpool Street needs to start back from Cambridge North, as Platforms 2/3 at Cambridge are too short for the new [longer] GA units.
Coming from Cambridge North means using Platform 7 (or 8). That requires an extra {1/2} adjustment on the running tome from Cambridge to Shepreth Branch due to the long 15mph run out of Platform 7 until you get clear of Hills Road bridge. Plus the distance to cover is physically longer than starting from Platform 2/3. Especially slow at 15mph for a train 240m long...
Which means an xx.04 departure must become earlier, and no chance of finding an extra half-minute anywhere else on West Anglia to balance it out.
The inevitable consequence of more, longer trains fitting together on an unchanged network.
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The Greater Anglia ECS move that you're referring to is, I think, for the train that currently forms the 18:22 from CBG to ELY. That train is being axed in December (according to the current info in RTT), and the ECS move is changing to go into the sidings, rather than to a platform, at CBG.
Compare http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L73762/2019/12/02/advanced (current timetable) with http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L47465/2019/12/23/advanced (new timetable).
Compare http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L73762/2019/12/02/advanced (current timetable) with http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L47465/2019/12/23/advanced (new timetable).
Perhaps that does it for the 'fasts', but they're also adding this extra minute padding to the 'stoppers', which already start at Cambridge North, and are already generally booked for platform 8. Comparing on RTT, looks like a minute is being added for them between Shelford and Whittlesford, for whatever reason. Maybe they think extra time in needed there, but eg. looking at the performance of the 'stoppers' on that section yesterday, it doesn't appear to be.
(my bolding). Which services are you referring to - specificaly? The '2H's'? I don't see any padding in the AM peak 2H services, once past Cambridge - apart from the engineering minute before Standsted North's Jn. (except 2H17, the 0848 ex-cambridge having a minute pathing at Standsted North Jn and the engineering moved back to Elsenham.
It might be worth concidering that the TPRs have been amended for the Dec 19 tt change, in so far as:
5 Running Times, Margins and Allowances 5.1 Sectional Running Times 5.1.3 New and Revised Sectional Running Times SRT changes are being included in Anglia Timetable Planning Rules 2020 Version 3.0 and will be sent to all TPR Forum participants. Summary of the changes: EA 1011 SRTs in Shenfield area reviewed
EA 1012 SRTs in Europa Junction area reviewed
EA 1161 SRTs amended for Class 365 & 700 Cambridge to Shepreth Branch Junction Class 153 SRTs removed between Cambridge and Ely Dock Junction
EA 1162 SRTs added for King's Lynn Siding
EA 1470 SRTs split to include Coke Ovens Junction
EA 1560 SRTs which omit mandatory timing point March West Junction removed
I'm looking at the 2H offpeaks/weekends for the 'standard' service. I'd expect minor variations in the peaks.
Eg. 2H35 today with 2H35 on 23rd December. The WTT for December seems to be missing the inter-minute granularity, which makes comparison a little more difficult - but the latter leaves Cambridge one minute earlier, and from Whittlesford onwards they match. In both cases they are due to leave from the 7/8 island at CBG.
The same pattern is repeated, as far as I can see, throughout the M-F off-peaks, and all weekend.
Ahh, Off-Peak. Yeah, i can see that now - departing 1 earlier from Cambridge, with 1/2 minute longer SRT (Sectional Running Time) to Sheopreth Branch Jn, and an additonal 1/2 minute dwell time added at Whittlesford Parkway station, to depart as per the current Timetable.
So, as @Ianno87 saidth, above, the additional 1/2 minute has been incorporated into the SRT (or at least it doesn't go downstream to the Open Data Feed(s) and onto RTT.
[As an aside, i can't currently check OpenTrainTimes as it no longer lets me view the individual schedules for some reason].
*I always thought the {adjustment} time was displayed - perhaps i am wrong - happy to concede, and apologies for dragging the thread on longer - when i perhaps should have looked closer.
Its worth noting the the {1/2} minute adjustment, for the Dec 19 timetable is an addition to the Train Planning Rules, and is not present in the current timetable, so there is no requirement at the moment to have it.
Although, today's
2H21 + 25 + 29 + 41 + 45 departed 1 Early from Cambridge, as were marked as on time at Shepreth Branch Jn (rather 1/2 minute early).
2H21 - http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/15195653/30/07/19
2H25 - http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/15195657/30/07/19
2H39 - http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/16599576/30/07/19
2H41 - http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/15194117/30/07/19
2H45 - http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/15194118/30/07/19
I swear it certainly used to be in TPRs? Perhaps removed in 2018, but turns out its useful to have after all...
This is screengrab of May 19:
This is screengrab of Dec 19:
I can't see anything listed in the May 19 commentary accompaniment to the TPRs (but that doesn't mean much!)
As for usefulness... agreed! When was the Cambridge south throat worked on? Presumably the amended SRT / rules is a consequence of some work?
The {1 1/2} to be added for plt 7+8 to the Down Main is consistent though.
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