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Caledonian Sleeper

Bassman

Bassman

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14 Dec 2018
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79
MrEd said:
I do think that Serco/the Scottish Government/the powers that be have misunderstood the purpose of the Caledonian Sleeper somewhat, in constantly trying to market it to a discerning customer who will never be satisfied (because you cannot feasibly make a national rail service into a five-star luxury train, however hard you try), rather than the regulars/budget travellers who simply wanted a comfortable and convenient service.
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I agree whole heartedly!
Essentially it is necessary to invest to improve the infrastructure, quality and reliability of night trains as a way of a travel option both affordable and more carbon neutral.
 
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Antman

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Can they do a good porridge? Or can’t it be reheated reliably? First morning in Scotland you want a traditional quality breakfast ..... (highland bacon IS good...)
 
G

GarethC

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22 Aug 2014
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68
GrimShady said:
Has anyone used the Oban bus connection?
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Yes! Used it last Thursday morning.
You need to turn left when you walk down the steps from the platform at Crianlarich. The bus driver was checking tickets but not issuing any. Was some confusion with one passenger who had boarded the seats at Crewe, buying a ticket on the day, but only to Crianlarich who was let to travel anyway.
About 10 of us on a 50 seater coach. Drops you off across the road from the railway station in Oban.

I had previous bought Crianlarich-Craignure (Mull) tickets from my local booking office so had tickets. Not sure if you can actually buy sleeper tickets to Oban, I couldn't find it on their website.
 
GrimShady

GrimShady

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GarethC said:
Yes! Used it last Thursday morning.
You need to turn left when you walk down the steps from the platform at Crianlarich. The bus driver was checking tickets but not issuing any. Was some confusion with one passenger who had boarded the seats at Crewe, buying a ticket on the day, but only to Crianlarich who was let to travel anyway.
About 10 of us on a 50 seater coach. Drops you off across the road from the railway station in Oban.

I had previous bought Crianlarich-Craignure (Mull) tickets from my local booking office so had tickets. Not sure if you can actually buy sleeper tickets to Oban, I couldn't find it on their website.
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I was wondering if it's open users of the seated sleeper for use between Oban Glasgow QS and Edinburgh. Much better traveling environment than the dreaded 156.

I emailed CS as you can't book tickets on the website. The auto response said "A member of the team will respond to your email within twenty working days, as we are currently experiencing a high volume of correspondence and our team is working hard to reply as quickly as possible."

20 days???
 
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BRX

BRX

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MrEd said:
This was exactly how the Caledonian Sleeper was in First Group days with the comparable ‘Bargain Berths’ and otherwise competitive standard class fares. Admittedly there were no en-suites, but otherwise the level of service was very similar; friendly staff, a comfy lounge with a basic but affordable menu, no gimmicks. The breakfasts then were a bit like the Czech/Hungarian ones you describe above, even in first class- perfectly decent continental-style selections but nothing to write home about. To be honest, this was all that most of us regular travellers ever wanted from the Caledonian Sleeper. I do think that Serco/the Scottish Government/the powers that be have misunderstood the purpose of the Caledonian Sleeper somewhat, in constantly trying to market it to a discerning customer who will never be satisfied (because you cannot feasibly make a national rail service into a five-star luxury train, however hard you try), rather than the regulars/budget travellers who simply wanted a comfortable and convenient service.
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Yes - this.
 
J

jagardner1984

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11 May 2008
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675
BRX said:
Yes - this.
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However they go about it, via a ticket lottery, or off season bargain berths, or some bargain off peak Carnet product, some price matching on the morning flights to London, tempting back the standard traveller of a few years back seems critical to the long term, year round robust business model they need to pursue.

In my circle of friends there are so many who need to travel regularly to London. Many of them are very keen to adopt greener travel. Many of them have huge pressures of time. The sleeper makes absolute logical sense in so many ways. Once you exclude the idea of sleeping in a hard chair for 8 hours (which I think for many, if not most working professionals going into a day of work, you can), they simply cannot justify, to their employers or to themselves (if self funding), the hundreds of pounds extra the most basic sleeper option will cost them.

(I'm excluding the times infrastructure issues make the whole train free, which as pointed out is a pretty undeniable, if frustrating, bargain !)
 
MrEd

MrEd

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13 Jan 2019
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587
jagardner1984 said:
However they go about it, via a ticket lottery, or off season bargain berths, or some bargain off peak Carnet product, some price matching on the morning flights to London, tempting back the standard traveller of a few years back seems critical to the long term, year round robust business model they need to pursue.

In my circle of friends there are so many who need to travel regularly to London. Many of them are very keen to adopt greener travel. Many of them have huge pressures of time. The sleeper makes absolute logical sense in so many ways. Once you exclude the idea of sleeping in a hard chair for 8 hours (which I think for many, if not most working professionals going into a day of work, you can), they simply cannot justify, to their employers or to themselves (if self funding), the hundreds of pounds extra the most basic sleeper option will cost them.

(I'm excluding the times infrastructure issues make the whole train free, which as pointed out is a pretty undeniable, if frustrating, bargain !)
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This is all so true. While I like to think that Serco and the Scottish government aren’t naive, I do worry that they didn’t consider carefully enough the needs of the passengers who keep the Highland Sleeper (and probably the Lowlander) running six nights a week all through the winter. Well-heeled tourists they are not, nor do they (in most cases) care about the frivolous gimmicks introduced by the new operator. We don’t need staff in tweed uniforms, or high-end toiletries, or complimentary smoked salmon for breakfast, or a menu the length of War and Peace, and we’re generally perfectly happy to share tables in the lounge car on the train (we don’t need an ‘exclusive’ experience, and a lot of regulars I speak to were also perfectly happy to share berths in standard to keep the cost down, but I understand that this is more contentious).

What I think the regulars want going forward, and what CS needs to deliver if it’s to remain competitive (as I hope it does because it’s an extremely useful service), is a reliable, value-for-money overnight service with some decent (but not extravagant) food in the lounge in the evening (and a decent cup of tea in the morning). Extravagant it was not, but I feel that the First Group operation (for all its faults) delivered exactly that. I also feel that tourists enjoyed the First Group operation for what it was, and that passengers (of all walks of life) seemed happier five years ago than they do today, even if the stock was showing its age. The train catered to a much wider range of people back then, and fascinating conversation in the lounge car with all kinds of interesting people was guaranteed, as the long-distance commuters and business travellers rubbed shoulders with highlanders and islanders heading home after visiting family down south and with all kinds of holidaymakers from both home and abroad who seemed to be enjoying every minute of the journey. This sadly seems to be less and less the case now, and disgruntled tourists moaning about trivia/with impossibly high expectations seem more and more to be the order of the day. This is not a good sign, as repeat custom needs to be the key.
 
C

Crepello

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29 Jun 2018
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57
BenBru said:
Based on this rather frightening thread...
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I echo the sentiments of other posters - keep in mind, a majority of CS passengers arrive without significant delay, having had a journey that's memorable for the right reasons - as I've had the pleasure of doing, twice within the last 12 months. (Wish I'd "discovered" it before I moved from Europe to Texas!) Even my post-arrival shower at Inverness could not have been a more pleasant experience - nor could arriving at FtW to see the Jacobite in steam - magnificent experiences, both times.

And I do love the prattle of this thread - which rivals any of the "expertise" on Crewe's Platform 6 on any given Saturday! Here's what I've surmised:
- The 73/9s must be replaced immediately, because new is good.
- The Mark 5s must be returned immediately, because... new is not good.
- Fares are too high and need to be reduced immediately.
- CS needs to provision recovery locomotives, double heading and countless other reactive measures, driving up costs and thus fares.

Some folks are hard to please!
 
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L

Lenningrad

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27 Mar 2018
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1
GrimShady said:
I was wondering if it's open users of the seated sleeper for use between Oban Glasgow QS and Edinburgh. Much better traveling environment than the dreaded 156.

I emailed CS as you can't book tickets on the website. The auto response said "A member of the team will respond to your email within twenty working days, as we are currently experiencing a high volume of correspondence and our team is working hard to reply as quickly as possible."

20 days???
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Use the Scotrail site to book through to Oban. When available tickets are £15 before any discounts and include the bus. Advance fares seem to have disappeared for the Oban train this summer on the regular service!
 
GrimShady

GrimShady

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13 Dec 2016
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1,740
Lenningrad said:
Use the Scotrail site to book through to Oban. When available tickets are £15 before any discounts and include the bus. Advance fares seem to have disappeared for the Oban train this summer on the regular service!
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Thanks for the info Lenningrad.
 
GrimShady

GrimShady

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Lenningrad said:
Use the Scotrail site to book through to Oban. When available tickets are £15 before any discounts and include the bus. Advance fares seem to have disappeared for the Oban train this summer on the regular service!
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Only ScotRail trains seem to be displayed using the ScotRail app, even Raileasy won't find it. You can book tickets from Crianlarich to Glasgow QS using Raileasy.
 
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MrEd

MrEd

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13 Jan 2019
Messages
587
Crepello said:
I echo the sentiments of other posters - keep in mind, a majority of CS passengers arrive without significant delay, having had a journey that's memorable for the right reasons - as I've had the pleasure of doing, twice within the last 12 months. (Wish I'd "discovered" it before I moved from Europe to Texas!) Even my post-arrival shower at Inverness could not have been a more pleasant experience - nor could arriving at FtW to see the Jacobite in steam - magnificent experiences, both times.

And I do love the prattle of this thread - which rivals any of the "expertise" on Crewe's Platform 6 on any given Saturday! Here's what I've surmised:
- The 73/9s must be replaced immediately, because new is good.
- The Mark 5s must be returned immediately, because... new is not good.
- Fares are too high and need to be reduced immediately.
- CS needs to provision recovery locomotives, double heading and countless other reactive measures, driving up costs and thus fares.

Some folks are hard to please!
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I agree entirely with what you say; the sleeper is still a fantastic experience. There is a lot of wibble on this forum, as you rightly suggest, and I am sure that the 73s and Mk5s are here to stay and will do an excellent job once they’ve settled down (in fact the 73s already are doing on the Aberdeen and Fort William portions). However, I would say that concerns about fare increases *are* valid if the fare increases mean that CS are pricing themselves out of the most important target market and thereby threatening the long-term, year-round viability of the service. Comparatively few well-heeled tourists want to travel to (say) Aberdeen (or any destinations served by CS for that matter) on a Wednesday night in November or February... Of course, if they can fill all the portions of the train, both Lowland and Highland, out of season, then clearly the current marketing and fares are working... I will have to wait until next March (after the first winter of Mk5 operation and Mk5 pricing structure on all routes) to see what my view is on this.
 
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Chrism20

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27 Feb 2013
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I'm looking to do a return on the Highlander mid November but only want to do it if its the new stock.

Is it worth risking a booking at the moment in the hope that the new stock is running on all routes by then?

Looking over the last few weeks of the new stock other than a few late boardings and reports of en-suites locked out etc the Lowlander operation seems to be running much smoother than it was just a month ago when I had to bus it to London.

I assume if I were to book a fixed price ticket if the stock was still the MK3s a refund would be offered as well as the change on rate.
 
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RochdalePioneers

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2 Jan 2009
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I had a great time on the Highlander! Mk3 berths are very comfortable, the ride is smooth. The lack of lounge car meant I had no problem getting a seat and no problem eating my own supplies in there. I had a very pleasant evening chatting with American tourists as the sun set over Drumochter, and the hour delay into Euston made no difference to my day.

OK so check in was badly managed, the old stock is frayed at the edges and failing here and there, the lounge car meant bring a picnic and the late arrival could have been a problem had I been in a hurry. But £120 for a trip Inverness to London complete with bed isn't bad.
 
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alistairlees

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29 Dec 2016
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3,737
Chrism20 said:
I'm looking to do a return on the Highlander mid November but only want to do it if its the new stock.

Is it worth risking a booking at the moment in the hope that the new stock is running on all routes by then?

Looking over the last few weeks of the new stock other than a few late boardings and reports of en-suites locked out etc the Lowlander operation seems to be running much smoother than it was just a month ago when I had to bus it to London.

I assume if I were to book a fixed price ticket if the stock was still the MK3s a refund would be offered as well as the change on rate.
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It will be new stock in November
 
MrEd

MrEd

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13 Jan 2019
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587
Chrism20 said:
I'm looking to do a return on the Highlander mid November but only want to do it if its the new stock.

Is it worth risking a booking at the moment in the hope that the new stock is running on all routes by then?

Looking over the last few weeks of the new stock other than a few late boardings and reports of en-suites locked out etc the Lowlander operation seems to be running much smoother than it was just a month ago when I had to bus it to London.

I assume if I were to book a fixed price ticket if the stock was still the MK3s a refund would be offered as well as the change on rate.
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If I were you, then I wouldn’t risk a booking yet if the sole purpose of your trip is to travel on Mk5s. Obviously, if you need to travel to Inverness anyway, then you might as well book it. I need to use the Highlander in November too, but will be happy to take what comes, old stock or new. No fixed date has been set for Mk5 introduction on the Highlander, and although CS are suggesting that they will be introduced ASAP, that could theoretically be any time between September and the end of the year, depending on how smoothly they are running on the Lowlander and the amount of testing/crew training that is needed for a successful introduction on the Highlander. I seem to recall that the online booking system currently suggests that the changeover might be at the end of September, but I definitely wouldn’t rely on this. I like to think that CS will be looking to avoid a repeat of what happened in April-June with the Lowlander at all costs, and so will be taking as long as they need to ensure a successful introduction. I could be wrong, but I definitely don’t think that CS will want to run the old stock after the end of December (at the very latest) because it does not comply with the PRM regulations which come into force on 1st January next year. Obviously, this is all speculation, but I’d hold your horses for the moment. I’m not sure about refunds; certainly they gave compensation for non-availability of the new stock on the Highlander this summer, but I’m not sure about a full refund if you’re on a fixed ticket (you could always book a refundable, flexible one).
 
MrEd

MrEd

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alistairlees said:
It will be new stock in November
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You may well be right, and in some ways (given the state of the old stock) I hope you are, but how certain is this? I don’t think CS have confirmed an introduction date, or have they?
 
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alistairlees

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MrEd said:
You may well be right, and in some ways (given the state of the old stock) I hope you are, but how certain is this? I don’t think CS have confirmed an introduction date, or have they?
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Yes, they have. It's by the end of September.
 
185143

185143

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They offered me a refund on a fixed ticket recently if I wanted to defer my journey to a time when the new stock was in service. Which felt rather generous given I was in the seats, at the same price as previously!
 
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sirren

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11 Jul 2019
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8
Hi all, new poster.

I asked. At the moment there is no confirmed date for the switch to new carriages on the Highlander.

You can get a refund on a fixed ticket (at least currently) because I’ve had one for October. It does confirm it somewhere on one of their webpages about the delays.
 
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