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Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR

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Master29

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They are not even slightly similar services. As I said, and quite a few people seem to be disregarding for some reason I can't quite understand, these are unique services in the UK. They are only comparable with the Caledonian Sleeper, the Highland Chieftain and the LNER KX-Aberdeen services as IC services where most passengers make a journey of well over four hours, mostly without breaking up the journey in any form. Furthermore, a lot of people are boarding/alighting at stations with very limited catering facilites, something that isn't going to affect a long-distance passenger from say Kings Cross to Edinburgh.
You`ve hit the nail on the head there and that is what many do not recognise. I never really thought about it but being comparable to those services is exactly that. There is a world of difference on the Penzance line to services like Bristol, South Wales, Cheltenham and the elitist Cotswolds line. Look at the Caledonian sleeper and how it`s funded. TfW have the Gerald which I`m told has an excellent complimentary dining service and is funded through the Welsh assembly. Well, I`ll just get stuck into my complimentary dishwater coffee and rather nice fruit cake.
There isn't going to be a buffet on GWR unless GWR wants to put one on and DfT don't mind. I don't understand why many here think such matters are decided otherwise, especially not by an RMT petition!
Edit: missed out a 'not'.
In your view.
Have I just been lucky with the services I have travelled on as all but 2 trips on GWR IET services this year I have had the trolly pass by me at least once and some of these trips have been quite short.
I would agree that you have been lucky.
 
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Bletchleyite

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You`ve hit the nail on the head there and that is what many do not recognise. I never really thought about it but being comparable to those services is exactly that. There is a world of difference on the Penzance line to services like Bristol, South Wales, Cheltenham and the elitist Cotswolds line. Look at the Caledonian sleeper and how it`s funded. TfW have the Gerald which I`m told has an excellent complimentary dining service and is funded through the Welsh assembly. Well, I`ll just get stuck into my complimentary dishwater coffee and rather nice fruit cake.

Ah, yes, I forgot Gerald - one more, then. A Gerald like service would certainly work well on the Cornish services.
 

Master29

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Trouble is unlike the Welsh version it would be well used and would soon become a victim of it's own success!!
You`ve got a point there. A pipe dream I suppose. The Pirran, Petroc, the Saints Express or the Kernow sound good though you`d have to admit.
 

irish_rail

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You`ve got a point there. A pipe dream I suppose. The Pirran, Petroc, the Saints Express or the Kernow sound good though you`d have to admit.
We can but dream. Although I think Cornish independence is probably more likely!!!!
 

Parallel

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Trouble is unlike the Welsh version it would be well used and would soon become a victim of it's own success!!
The last two times I have used it, almost all seats were reserved with walk up passengers fighting over the remaining seats. And this was midweek, not even a Friday!
 

CharlesR

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I gave up on page 2 so sorry if I sound somewhat ignorant, but I feel that I would be constantly be going around a roundabout if I read on further.

Let’s clarify that the DfT ordered the trains to these standards and they are apart of the 30 year leading program. Everything has to go through the DfT - from adding the safety information inside, redoing the seat covers or adding bicycle signs to the outside of the train. Now the first obstacle will be getting through them.

Secondly, anyone with common sence over at Western House would know that fitting them to just the 9 Car 802s would be impractical and operationally difficult. The December 2019 is built to allow splitting at the applicable stations and capacity being upped during peak times with very careful diagramming. So, this would mess up the proposed 10 car formations intended to be used.

Thirdly, catering is being looked at and it can be altered without buffet. Now whether in 30 years time RMT union will be saying that no buffets effects the safety of their staff or something like that, I don’t know, but I’m certain there will be a practical solution without building a buffet. The kitchen is fully equipped however seems to at the moment only having its fridges and coffee machines being used.

What do I think would be the most practical solution?

Instead of taking more trains off to spend more money wasting the extra capacity promised I believe that the catering should be improved by more variety, more staff being used on services to make use of the kitchens
on board. No, I’m not saying the 17:30 to Taunton should be The Harvester on wheels, however you could have hot snacks like a Bacon Roll or Toasties. But, I must stress that ultimately the modern commuter wants a seat, not a 14 course meal. But, the 06:00 to Paddington is different to the Friday night 23:30..
 

Master29

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Thirdly, catering is being looked at and it can be altered without buffet. Now whether in 30 years time RMT union will be saying that no buffets effects the safety of their staff or something like that, I don’t know, but I’m certain there will be a practical solution without building a buffet. The kitchen is fully equipped however seems to at the moment only having its fridges and coffee machines being used.
But the catering has been "being looked at" chestnut has been peddled for ages now and with seemingly no end in sight it look as though for the next 30 years two stupid kitchins, sorry drink coolers will be the norm along with the other great euphemism for crap catering, "buffets only take up seating space". I often wonder if those kitchens are made up of dark matter as they seem practically invisible on this merry go round of a topic. Maybe the Hadron Collider experiment should have been conducted with the DaFT and GWR on board. We may have found explanations as to the universe origins.
 

Nippy

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I don know, how about having one coach of 1st, kitchen (with a counter) and 3.5 coaches of standard in a 5 or 1.5 coaches of 1st, kitchen (with a counter) and 7 standard....roughly the same amount of seats and a decent on board service? I'm traveling to Exeter from Padd on Saturday returning with family members and I'm hoping that the rail industry doesn't embarrass me too much....
 

Busaholic

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We can but dream. Although I think Cornish independence is probably more likely!!!!
The Cornish nationalist party Mebyon Kernow were just as enthusiastic for a Remain vote in the Referendum as were the Welsh and Scottish nationalists. The Leave vote with its concomitant withdrawal of EU subsidies and grants to Cornwall virtually guarantees that Cornish independence will remain a pipe dream or pipe nightmare, take your pick!
 

irish_rail

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The Cornish nationalist party Mebyon Kernow were just as enthusiastic for a Remain vote in the Referendum as were the Welsh and Scottish nationalists. The Leave vote with its concomitant withdrawal of EU subsidies and grants to Cornwall virtually guarantees that Cornish independence will remain a pipe dream or pipe nightmare, take your pick!
In my view Cornwall is as much a separate celtic nation as Wales Ireland or Scotland , and should be treated as such but without full on independence. Anyway, back to the topic at hand........
 

VT 390

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I don know, how about having one coach of 1st, kitchen (with a counter) and 3.5 coaches of standard in a 5 or 1.5 coaches of 1st, kitchen (with a counter) and 7 standard....roughly the same amount of seats and a decent on board service? I'm traveling to Exeter from Padd on Saturday returning with family members and I'm hoping that the rail industry doesn't embarrass me too much....
Is that not basically the same as now just with the kitchen moved between standard and first and a small buffet counter added?
If this is what you are suggesting you would still loose a few seats and after travelling to Cornwall recently even just a few seats removed would not be good as when I travelled down every seat was taken and on the return I could see no un reserved seats so I think unless the kitchen was made smaller or replaced by the buffet then seats are far more important .
 

takno

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Is that not basically the same as now just with the kitchen moved between standard and first and a small buffet counter added?
If this is what you are suggesting you would still loose a few seats and after travelling to Cornwall recently even just a few seats removed would not be good as when I travelled down every seat was taken and on the return I could see no un reserved seats so I think unless the kitchen was made smaller or replaced by the buffet then seats are far more important .
All that means is that the yield management software is working very well (or possibly undercharging). If there had been 16 less seats then 16 people would have been priced onto another train instead
 

Goldfish62

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Is that not basically the same as now just with the kitchen moved between standard and first and a small buffet counter added?
If this is what you are suggesting you would still loose a few seats and after travelling to Cornwall recently even just a few seats removed would not be good as when I travelled down every seat was taken and on the return I could see no un reserved seats so I think unless the kitchen was made smaller or replaced by the buffet then seats are far more important .
Except how often on each train would those seats be required? A couple of trips a day and then for the whole journey, I'd guess. By accommodating those few passengers that would otherwise stand the whole train misses out on a buffet. Taking the argument the other way, why not consider that the existing seat layout is inadequate and lose some legroom to squeeze in a couple extra rows per carriage? Perhaps also go for 2+3 seating. Capacity v comfort is always a balance and I think LNER have got it right and GWR/DfT have got it wrong.
 

VT 390

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Except how often on each train would those seats be required? A couple of trips a day and then for the whole journey, I'd guess. By accommodating those few passengers that would otherwise stand the whole train misses out on a buffet. Taking the argument the other way, why not consider that the existing seat layout is inadequate and lose some legroom to squeeze in a couple extra rows per carriage? Perhaps also go for 2+3 seating. Capacity v comfort is always a balance and I think LNER have got it right and GWR/DfT have got it wrong.
If it meant having a buffet then yes on the class 800/802 I would be perfectly happy to loose some leg room as I think it is to much anyway, but 3+2 seating would definitely not be a good idea for any long distance services such as those to Penzance.
I am not against a buffet but would not want to loose any seats for them so changing the layout so there is slightly less legroom on each seat would seam to be a very good solution to this.
,
 

irish_rail

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If it meant having a buffet then yes on the class 800/802 I would be perfectly happy to loose some leg room as I think it is to much anyway, but 3+2 seating would definitely not be a good idea for any long distance services such as those to Penzance.
I am not against a buffet but would not want to loose any seats for them so changing the layout so there is slightly less legroom on each seat would seam to be a very good solution to this.
,
Tell that to anyone over about 5"9!!!!!!
 

VT 390

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Are you serious?
Yes, my first choice would be to leave the seats as they are but WITHOUT adding a buffet so there is no reduction in seating capacity but if there has to be a buffet then I would much rather have the same amount of seats with slightly less leg room than loose seats.
 

takno

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Yes, my first choice would be to leave the seats as they are but WITHOUT adding a buffet so there is no reduction in seating capacity but if there has to be a buffet then I would much rather have the same amount of seats with slightly less leg room than loose seats.
I don't think the ORR would approve of loose seats, whatever the buffet situation
 

irish_rail

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Yes, my first choice would be to leave the seats as they are but WITHOUT adding a buffet so there is no reduction in seating capacity but if there has to be a buffet then I would much rather have the same amount of seats with slightly less leg room than loose seats.
The leg room is probably the only decent thing about the 800s!
 

CharlesR

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In my view Cornwall is as much a separate celtic nation as Wales Ireland or Scotland , and should be treated as such but without full on independence. Anyway, back to the topic at hand........

The difference is is that they are much more populated, are bigger and trade flourishes more there. I’ll remind you that Cornwall is NOT in-fact the centre of the universe.
 

Adsy125

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Tell that to anyone over about 5"9!!!!!!
I’m 6”1 and there is still bags of legroom on them, slightly less legroom in one carriage to fit in a mini buffet and only removing 4 or 8 seats would seem like a better compromise.
 

mmh

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The difference is is that they are much more populated, are bigger and trade flourishes more there. I’ll remind you that Cornwall is NOT in-fact the centre of the universe.

Cornwall's more densely populated than each of Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
 

irish_rail

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The difference is is that they are much more populated, are bigger and trade flourishes more there. I’ll remind you that Cornwall is NOT in-fact the centre of the universe.
You don't say??!! But as pointed out Cornwall is far more densely populated and it's about identity, I'd argue the native Cornish are more celtic in their approach to life than Anglo Saxon English. I personally wish GWR would do more to sell and market Cornwalls "celticness" as it can be a huge draw for visitors, especially from overseas. Ireland has got it right in that respect with Americans, Germans etc lapping that kind of thing up.
 

Mountain Man

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Yes, my first choice would be to leave the seats as they are but WITHOUT adding a buffet so there is no reduction in seating capacity but if there has to be a buffet then I would much rather have the same amount of seats with slightly less leg room than loose seats.
Are you serious?
 

Ianno87

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You don't say??!! But as pointed out Cornwall is far more densely populated and it's about identity, I'd argue the native Cornish are more celtic in their approach to life than Anglo Saxon English. I personally wish GWR would do more to sell and market Cornwalls "celticness" as it can be a huge draw for visitors, especially from overseas. Ireland has got it right in that respect with Americans, Germans etc lapping that kind of thing up.

Why would GWR need to market any harder? Not as if trains are running to Cornwall empty...
 
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