CockneySparrow
Member
Guess the class 37s are now 100% finished then
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Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)
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dk1
Veteran Member
No, they kicked out yesterday afternoon due to DMU shortages. Still here for another month on standby.
More seats and lower cost.
Faster acceleration won't solve dwell time issues as there is huge difference on timetabling between the train being stationary and moving with the ability for the platform to be moving towards being reoccupied. Train planning uses 30s increments and NR are adamant they are going to use real data for timetabling assumptions so they don't get hit for Abellio's poor choices.
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samuelmorris
Established Member
and on all Southeastern stock, and Southern, c2c, Great Northern, the rest of Greater Anglia's fleet, and the Piccadilly line. A commonly used voice.
Announcements about the number of coaches in the train are usually only necessary if SDO is being used. I gather that isn't happening yet.
Railperf
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How are they going to record dwell times with the correct level of accuracy? And of course drivers are not necessarily going to be driving at full power if the current timetable does not demand it or indeed allow it if the Stadlers start catching up trains in front!
The Class 37 diagram is hardly taxing, so the Stadlers can probably be driven along at less than full power to maintain the timetable unless the dwell times start causing serious lateness. Then again a single Class 153 on a busy summer Saturday ends up losing time!
I travelled yestrday on the 12:36 from Norwich to Great Yarmouth and the 13:17 return. I was greatly impressed - the seats are more comfortable than on the IETs out of Paddington and they have plenty of legroom. I did not notice any engine noise though I was not sitting in a vehicle next to the power pack. A good design feature is that the two toilet compartments are side by side thus obviating the need for desperate passengers to locate the other loo if one is already occupied.
The train was well-loaded in both directions, I think several like me were enthusiasts but I think most were "normal" passengers.
One small gripe I perhaps should take up with Abellio is that I couldn't see a way if getting my one-third railcard discount using the ticket machine so had to queue up at the icket office.
The train was well-loaded in both directions, I think several like me were enthusiasts but I think most were "normal" passengers.
One small gripe I perhaps should take up with Abellio is that I couldn't see a way if getting my one-third railcard discount using the ticket machine so had to queue up at the icket office.
The dwell times will only really be an issue at certain stations with the 12 car EMUs which have longer coaches too .
Measurement - Mk1 eye ball with stop watch combined with track circuit occupancy timing data from signalling.
Some of the regional routes have short turnarounds but not at busy locations.
Railperf
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If you have a smartphone, the app is best and most often gives you an electronic ticket. No problems obtaining railcard discount. My gripe is not being able to purchase an Anglia Plus rover using the app.
Doesn't the onboard software keep a log of events?
I do have a smartphone, but I prefer paper tickets. At least then if the smartphone is lost, pinched or damaged it is still possible to get home.
Railperf
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Surely they would have carried out some tests on the time taken to full/empty a carriage before entering service? And wouldn't Stadler have been able to provide that sort of data? Because surely that would not only influence how many doors, but also the width of doors and type of opening/closing mechanisms and the associated interlocks which also have a bearing on dwell time!
delticdave
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I'd say yes, the unit didn't slow for the 20 mph under-bridge limit near Brundal Gardens whereas the 37's did, as per usual.
It was noticeable that the unit was waiting for departure time at all the intermediate stops, the 0-60 acceleration is app 58 seconds, somewhat faster than the existing DMU fleet.... The engines aren't running as constant speed gen-sets, the rpm's ramp-up quite quickly when leaving a station, then they back-off at 60 mph, just like a locomotive, as does the traction motor noise when it's up to line-speed.
I'm looking forward to a ride away from the 60 mph branches, I believe that Norwich - Cambridge has some fast stretches of line?
Come on people I'm one to critisise GA when they deserve it but these trains are light years ahead of anything used on rural routes anywhere in the country. Single doors may cause some problems (on Stansteds in the peak perhaps) but the 4 car yesterday to Gt Yarmouth was much better than my last (non Short Set) trip to the resort in the school holidays which was a one car 153 packed to the gunwhales and a relief double decker down the A47 waiting in the car park!
I sat in a variety of seats and other than being right next to the power pack the noise from the engine was minimal especially on CWR. In terms of performance the set consistantly reached 60mph in around 50 seconds from a stand, admitedly this was pretty much level track on a dry rail. Eat your heart out 15x and 17xs!
I sat in a variety of seats and other than being right next to the power pack the noise from the engine was minimal especially on CWR. In terms of performance the set consistantly reached 60mph in around 50 seconds from a stand, admitedly this was pretty much level track on a dry rail. Eat your heart out 15x and 17xs!
Railperf
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You will always get home even if it means purchasing another ticket and claiming a refund in the event your phone was lost/stolen or damaged. I assume a police report would be required as evidence for theft. In any case you have to have a registered email address to use the app, so your ticket is always accessible from there.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I was going to say, that video that was linked showed some pretty lengthy dwell times, if that's just because they're arriving so early then that is quite impressive.
Railperf
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How were you measuring speed? Does GPS work inside the trains? The windows appear to have a metallic layer to repel sunlight - which usually weakens the GPS signal inside the train. Does the PIS display speed?
Railperf
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Yes, the 170's struggle to 60mph in around 90 to 100 seconds. Cannot wait to sample that!
And it also beats a Class 800/802 in diesel mode too!
This involved an Abellio bid team of course they won't have asked those key questions - though other did later... (Can't say too much).
The 12car EMUs from Stadler were cheaper than Aventra and Abellio were desperate to go for all new stock (bonus points) with a financially competitive bid. Asking question about whether the 12car Stadlers with 1 set of doors /car would deal with passenger numbers at key stations didn't even enter into it.
(Ditto those fold down seats in the 720 vestibules as a key scoring metric was number of seats)
Railperf
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Yes 90mph on some stretches - the 170's take an age to get there. Be interesting to see how the FLIRT performs. And if they can use the 'leccy' south of Ely, that will be interesting to see how electric mode differs from diesel.
RailWonderer
Established Member
If you skip to 5:47 in this video
As for the FLIRTS, the only shame so far is that the line speed is so low, the fast acceleration isn’t important as it will be on the GEML Colchester/Chelmsford - Liverpool St non stop. That’s where they can really shine.
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dk1
Veteran Member
That was NXEA days so used to form the 09:38 Lowestoft & 10:38 Peterborough. Was the only 170 operated service south of Ipswich booked for a guard at the time as DOO was not permitted on 6-car units. Before 2004 the 170 diagrams where far more complex in this neck of the woods as Anglia used them on daytime Norwich services as well as sending them off to Kings Cross for Hull Trains & briefly for Crosslink Basingstoke services.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Why would fast acceleration be important for non-stop services? It's the acceleration of the 720s that will improve GEML performance, not the 745s.
CockneySparrow
Member
Needs to be confirmed by someone but one of the new units has failed today
The short set is currently back on NC37
The short set is currently back on NC37
RailWonderer
Established Member
The 720s will form the majority of services but accelerating from 0-100mph on the FLIRTS is just as important for the GEML as for the Aventras, but this thread isn’t about the 720s.
0- whatever mph the line speed is on Norwich - Yarmouth. (I presume very low), isn’t as major.
samuelmorris
Established Member
My point is, the number of stops the 745s will make on the busy part of the GEML is tiny, so the acceleration performance won't have anywhere near as much of an impact.
dk1
Veteran Member
Wherry Lines are 60mph, Bittern Line a mix of 55/75mph & East Suffolk 55.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Being honest though, none of that is new information, it's been pretty obvious for a while that this is the case and that they were trying to tick as many boxes as possible with minimum margin for error that required a herculean effort with everything going right to work out whilst also being able to generate huge amounts of PR and marketing hype.
The practice of it and the operations side had very little input and the input they did have was very late in the day when everything had been pretty much decided anyway from what I have heard, so not like they could have made a difference anyway. It was just a typical bid to win a tender and once it's won the bid team are seen to have done their job and will be long gone and handsomely rewarded by the time the ops team have to deal with the consequences.
Should that become an issue, how difficult would it be to upgrade the 745s? e.g. replace two of the unpowered bogies by powered ones?
samuelmorris
Established Member
I'm not saying it'll be an issue - the 745s have already demonstrated impressive acceleration (0-40 in 20s from a quick estimate from
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MisterT
Member
Why would it have failed? It might also be due to driver availability for the 755, or just to do some finetuning for some things. Now is the time to do such things, as there is still a one on one spare available.
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