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KGX/Cambridge Ely query

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bspahh

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The platforms at Waterbeach and Littleport will be extended. "Work is currently expected to start in October 2019 and completed in the summer of 2020.

It is anticipated Great Northern will look to introduce longer eight car services in December 2020."

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....ambridge-and-kings-lynn-given-the-green-light says
Friday 15 Feb 2019

Investment allowing eight car trains between Cambridge and King’s Lynn given the green light
Route:

Anglia
A significant enhancement scheme to tackle congestion between Cambridge and King’s Lynn has been given the go ahead by the government.

The Department for Transport has approved a funding package of approximately £27m to allow Network Rail and its contractor Volker Fitzpatrick to upgrade the stations at Waterbeach and Littleport, extending the platforms to accommodate longer trains to stop.

Once the work is complete, eight car services can be introduced during peak times to provide more seats and a better experience for passengers by reducing overcrowding on existing services.

The work will involve:

  • Extending platforms 1 and 2 at Waterbeach station to 167 metres
  • Extending platform 2 at Littleport station to 167 metres and providing step free access to platform 1
  • Creating new stabling at King’s Lynn to support the longer train formations
Work is currently expected to start in October 2019 and completed in the summer of 2020.

It is anticipated Great Northern will look to introduce longer eight car services in December 2020.

Rail Minister Andrew Jones said: “This is an important and much needed upgrade, which will mean longer trains and a doubling of seats for passengers on the line between King’s Lynn and Cambridge.

“This is an excellent example of the investment we are putting into the national network over the next five years - around £48 billion to modernise our railways, giving passengers the reliable and punctual services they deserve.”

Meliha Duymaz, Network Rail’s route managing director for Anglia, said: “This funding announcement marks a significant milestone to deliver upgrades which will benefit all passengers travelling between Cambridge and Kings Lynn. These upgrades will allow longer trains to run on the line at peak times, providing more seats and space for passengers and reducing overcrowding.

“We hope this will be welcome news to everyone who has supported this investment.”

GTR Infrastructure Director Keith Jipps said: “King’s Lynn to King’s Cross services are very popular.

“Our drivers and trains are ready and we are working with our partners at Network Rail to get 8-carriage services operating on stopping services to King’s Lynn as soon as the infrastructure is ready and in line with the current industry timetable process.”

This is one of the first projects to progress to this stage of the new Rail Networks Enhancements Pipeline process, which the Department for Transport and Network Rail now jointly use to manage the delivery of new rail infrastructure.
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cle

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Isn’t the electric situation a bit duff up on that route, and upgrades needed?
 
eastdyke

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700007 said:
This upgrade should also allow the Elys to continue to King's Lynn as the original plan isn't it, providing a half hourly fast 387 service between London King's Cross, Cambridge, Ely and King's Lynn.
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Not too sure about the half hourly service. Ely and level crossing risks are constraints to running more trains.
That said, @Bald Rick has in the past intimated that level crossing risks might even constrain the 8 cars north of Ely.
As to Waterbeach, it is unfortunate that the existing station has to be updated prior to the new station located to the north. I suppose though it is unreasonable to continue the delay to 8 cars to Lynn any longer, travelling in the peaks must be pretty awful.
 
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Bald Rick

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eastdyke said:
Not too sure about the half hourly's. Ely and level crossing risks are constraints to running more trains.
That said, @Bald Rick has in the past intimated that level crossing risks might even constrain the 8 cars north of Ely.
As to Waterbeach, it is unfortunate that the existing station has to be updated prior to the new station located to the north. I suppose though it is unreasonable ito continue the delay to 8 cars to Lynn any longer, travelling in the peaks must be pretty awful.
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AIUI the LX issue for 8 car is in the process of being resolved. Having a half hourly service needs further work.
 
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MikeWM

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I suppose I should be grateful they’re getting around to doing this at all, but almost 2 more years of chronic overcrowding north of Cambridge isn’t a delightful prospect. Does extending 3 platforms really take almost 2 more years, on top of the many years they’ve been thinking about getting around to doing it? Last I heard this was scheduled to be done by the end of *this* year :(
 
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Bald Rick

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MikeWM said:
I suppose I should be grateful they’re getting around to doing this at all, but almost 2 more years of chronic overcrowding north of Cambridge isn’t a delightful prospect. Does extending 3 platforms really take almost 2 more years, on top of the many years they’ve been thinking about getting around to doing it? Last I heard this was scheduled to be done by the end of *this* year :(
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Well, you have to agree with the operator when to do the work, and that process starts 2 years out. And you can’t start those discussions in earnest until someone stumps up the cash to do the work.
 
47421

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Press release includes reference only to GTR services. Anyone know if 5 car 720s (equiv to 6 car 20m stock) will be able to run to Kings Lynn, including stops at Waterbeach and Littleport as currently on the GA through Kings Lynn services, prior to completion of these works?
 
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47421 said:
Press release includes reference only to GTR services. Anyone know if 5 car 720s (equiv to 6 car 20m stock) will be able to run to Kings Lynn, including stops at Waterbeach and Littleport as currently on the GA through Kings Lynn services, prior to completion of these works?
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That's a point I have forgotten. SDO would probably have to be used.
 
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cle

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Could a platform 4 be built at Ely along the existing road? And even a platform 0 in the old bay, which could be longer by building out over the stub line/much shorter bay at the end of P2 - less useful perhaps, but good for a terminating point for EWR or regional services if they go up in frequency. The P4 might be more useful, and full length.

Appreciate the north junction is more of an issue, but some platform capacity there might allow more moves, extensions and connections overall.
 
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bspahh

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cle said:
Could a platform 4 be built at Ely along the existing road? And even a platform 0 in the old bay, which could be longer by building out over the stub line/much shorter bay at the end of P2 - less useful perhaps, but good for a terminating point for EWR or regional services if they go up in frequency. The P4 might be more useful, and full length.
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These are some fairly recent aerial photographs (they both have the new bypass). The Google Maps one has an 8 coach train in platform 3 for an idea of the scale.
https://goo.gl/maps/r8849hYeR2N2
https://binged.it/2tscy8u

I don't think there is space for another through platform without building up the embankment. Anything is possible, given sufficient budget, but it wouldn't be easy.

Reopening the bay platform to the South would mean a lot less building work.
 
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cle

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Looks as if an 8 car in a 'Platform 0' bay, adjacent to P1 - wouldn't quite fit. And definitely not in the existing disused P2/3 bay.

I'm not sure if a bay was sub-8 cars, what would be useful to run there, from the south. Perhaps an additional Ipswich service? Or Stansted? But the latter has no capacity and anything spare would be better used on practically anything else. Possibly EWR services in time, which will be 4 cars.

Re: P4, I didn't realise there are two running lines east of P3, perhaps if we sacrificed the easternmost, a long but relatively narrow platform could fit - with realignment (and access/footbridge) at the northern end where it widens out.
 
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Ianno87

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cle said:
Re: P4, I didn't realise there are two running lines east of P3, perhaps if we sacrificed the easternmost, a long but relatively narrow platform could fit - with realignment (and access/footbridge) at the northern end where it widens out.
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The easternmost track is pretty fundamental to pathing a heck a lot of the Felixstowe freights through Ely. Don't go near it!
 
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Class 170101

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Platform occupancy at Ely will become less of a problem if the Kings Cross to Ely service is extended to Kings Lynn. I believe a second train off peak is planned to go to Kings Lynn at some point.
 
dk1

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Class 170101 said:
Platform occupancy at Ely will become less of a problem if the Kings Cross to Ely service is extended to Kings Lynn. I believe a second train off peak is planned to go to Kings Lynn at some point.
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Ely North Junction redoubling is usually quoted as when this will occur. Hopefully before 2024.
 
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bspahh

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https://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/upgrade-to-improve-services-to-cambridge-1-6187376 says:

£27m upgrade for stations at Littleport and Waterbeach will mean longer trains and more seats on Cambridge to King's Lynn route
VolkerFitzpatrick, the civil engineering firm that built the £49m Ely bypass, has been awarded a £27m contract by Network Rail that will include platform extensions at Littleport and Waterbeach.
Two platforms will be extended at Waterbeach and one at Littleport by 167 metres to cope with longer trains during peak times.

Preparation work is expected to start later this summer with main works starting around October 2019.

It will mean that from October, some weekend services will be suspended to allow engineers to get onto the track and start to build the platform extensions.

Passengers planning to travel at weekends between King's Lynn and Cambridge during autumn and winter are advised to check with their train operator or nationalrail.co.uk before travelling.

VolkerFitzpatick and Network Rail are running a number of drop-in sessions to provide an opportunity for residents and businesses to speak to members of the project team. The three planned public sessions are:

Waterbeach: Tuesday 13 August 2019 from 16:00 to 20:00 at the Waterbeach Baptist Church Hall, Chapel Street Waterbeach

Littleport: Wednesday 14 August 2019 from 15:00 to 21:00 at Littleport Village Hall Day Centre, Victoria Street, Littleport.

King's Lynn: Wednesday 21 August 2019, from 17:00 to 20:30 at The Board Room, King's Lynn Football Club, The Walks Stadium, Tennyson Road, King's Lynn.

The work is expected to be complete in the summer of 2020 with Great Northern promising to introduce longer eight car services at the first available opportunity, with the new timetable of December 2020.

Meliha Duymaz, Network Rail's route managing director for Anglia, said that once the work is complete in 2020, eight-car services can be introduced during peak times. Network Rail says it will provide more seats "and a better experience for passengers.

"The work will also improve connectivity for intermediate stations and support local development and regeneration plans along the Cambridge rail corridor."

"This important project will enable longer trains to run between Cambridge and King's Lynn during peak times, providing a better service for passengers with more seats, reducing overcrowding."

He added: "We have worked hard to get the project to this stage and I'm excited to see works begin, which once completed will deliver significant benefits for passengers."

GTR infrastructure director Keith Jipps said: "I am pleased for our passengers that we are getting closer to providing longer trains on the King's Lynn line. This has come as a result of many parties working together and the great support of our councillors, MPs and the Fen Line Users Association."
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MikeWM

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To echo what I've already said on this thread:

- Well, that's good that they're finally doing it
- It should have been done and finished a long time ago, and certainly before the May 2018 changes
- Why can't it be done in time for the May 2020 timetable change if they're starting in October? I seem to remember the Foxton and Shepreth extensions not taking more than 8 months (though willing to have my memory proven wrong!)

Though I now have one more:

- What does this involve other than the platform extensions? ('improve connectivity for intermediate stations and support local development and regeneration plans'?!) Even taking into account how poor the ground is around here, surely 500 metres of platform extensions aren't going to cost most of this £27 million???
 
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bspahh

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MikeWM said:
What does this involve other than the platform extensions? ('improve connectivity for intermediate stations and support local development and regeneration plans'?!) Even taking into account how poor the ground is around here, surely 500 metres of platform extensions aren't going to cost most of this £27 million???
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The press release I quoted in post #31 says it covers longer platforms Northbound at Littleport, in both directions at Waterbeach, and extra stabling at Kings Lynn. The wider underpass at Littleport for pedestrians might also come out of the £27m
 
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bspahh said:
The press release I quoted in post #31 says it covers longer platforms Northbound at Littleport, in both directions at Waterbeach, and extra stabling at Kings Lynn. The wider underpass at Littleport for pedestrians might also come out of the £27m
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I seem to have missed that part of the original release - too busy being astonished as to how it could be going to take two more years, I guess...

That still seems an extremely excessive amount of money, however, given they built the entire Ely bypass for £49 million (originally budgeted at £36 million...). That's 1.7km of road, with a major bridge over the railway and a bonus pedestrian walkway. In contrast, 500m of platform extensions plus a bonus siding or two doesn't seem like it should be anywhere near the same ballpark as that.

Oh well, at least it will get (eventually) done.
 
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MikeWM said:
To echo what I've already said on this thread:

- Well, that's good that they're finally doing it
- It should have been done and finished a long time ago, and certainly before the May 2018 changes
- Why can't it be done in time for the May 2020 timetable change if they're starting in October? I seem to remember the Foxton and Shepreth extensions not taking more than 8 months (though willing to have my memory proven wrong!)

Though I now have one more:

- What does this involve other than the platform extensions? ('improve connectivity for intermediate stations and support local development and regeneration plans'?!) Even taking into account how poor the ground is around here, surely 500 metres of platform extensions aren't going to cost most of this £27 million???
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You have answered your own question.

All the platforms being extended are in the fens (which you know doubt are aware of), which is reclaimed land (from a peat bog).

I have no idea how expensive it is to build on a dried out peat bog, but common sense tells me its going to be a fair bit more than building on a flat piece of solid rock.
 
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Ianno87

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MikeWM said:
That still seems an extremely excessive amount of money, however, given they built the entire Ely bypass for £49 million (originally budgeted at £36 million...). That's 1.7km of road, with a major bridge over the railway and a bonus pedestrian walkway.
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With the exception of craning a wide bridge over the railway (and once that's in you can work on it to your heart's content), the road was built entirely off-line through a green field.
 
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Guess then that it is just me that thinks this is incredibly expensive.

I note these folks managed to do *11* stations recently for about half the price

Thames Valley Platform Extensions

and I remain to be convinced that the admittedly difficult conditions of the ground around here require quite that much extra money. But then I'm no expert, so perhaps it does. In any event, I want it to get done (more quickly than they are going to!) so maybe I shouldn't care too much about the cost :)
 
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ac6000cw

ac6000cw

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MikeWM said:
Guess then that it is just me that thinks this is incredibly expensive.

I note these folks managed to do *11* stations recently for about half the price

Thames Valley Platform Extensions

and I remain to be convinced that the admittedly difficult conditions of the ground around here require quite that much extra money. But then I'm no expert, so perhaps it does. In any event, I want it to get done (more quickly than they are going to!) so maybe I shouldn't care too much about the cost :)
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I'm with you...

The Ely southern bypass actually involved two major bridges - one over the railway, and a (somewhat longer) viaduct over the river. The latter also has a separate footbridge attached to one side of it (with access ramps from ground level). In addition there are the road embankments on either side and between the bridges, plus the new road junctions (roundabouts) at each end of the bypass.

Not familiar with Littleport station, but I use Waterbeach fairly regularly - currently it has (very basic, lightweight) prefabricated, late-BR era platform sections, supported (I think) on a mixture of concrete block piers and posts/piles driven into the sides of the railway embankment. It doesn't feel like a complicated job to extend them - only thing that might be in the way are one or two of the OHLE support portals in each direction.

Also, Waterbeach station is planned to move to a new location a bit further north when a major new housing development takes place on the old Waterbeach Barracks site, so I hope the intention is to spend the absolute minimum on extending the current station, as it it should all be demolished in a few years time.
 
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ac6000cw

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Noticed yesterday that there is a new VolkerFitzpatrick site office encampment at Waterbeach station (in the NR yard next to the southbound platform). So if this is for the 8-car upgrade project, it's starting...
 
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