Volume of applications per job

Afternoon

I'm curious to know how many people usually apply for jobs advertised with a TOC?

I've dipped a few applications at the paper sift with Northern and Virgin.

The roles I have gone for have been customer based although one was for a trainee conductor.

I spoke to someone recently who states most if not all railway jobs are swamped with applications. Clearly, trainee driver jobs attract numbers in treble figures. The problem, he said, is that they get many internal applications from existing employees and their evidence based skills usually give them the edge over outsiders.

I believe it is illegal for any company to only advertise 'internally' but I could be wrong about this - I apologise if I am mistaken though!!!

I've started this thread just out of interest to see what the competition is like and generally how much interest an average job role would attract. I'm talking about a job for a customer service assistant or a gateline operative?

C J

C J Snarzell said:

I'm curious to know how many people usually apply for jobs advertised with a TOC?

Click to expand...

Very much in the hundreds. Rumored to be in the thousands. There are a few reasons for this and it isn't just because railway jobs are in demand. There is a low barrier to entry, the job turnover is high, availability is high, wages are high, recruitment is diverse, high service area, working conditions are good etc.

Another reason for the high numbers is that people are putting in multiple applications for multiple TOCs to increase their chance of just getting on the railway or stating they will relocate (not always genuine) Even on this forum you will see that a common recommendation is for people to apply for a lesser/alternative role just to get their foot in the door. This increases demand for other roles and increases turnover. People also fail to read the application criteria and apply anyway. This increases the number of applicants and contributes to low advertising times and cutoff numbers.

There is also an increased use of Talent Pools. This keeps applications active and each time a role is advertised you also need to consider those already in a pool or have pending applications.

The problem, he said, is that they get many internal applications from existing employees and their evidence based skills usually give them the edge over outsiders.

Click to expand...

Rumor, gossip, half truths, over generalization. etc etc. Anyone with existing skills have an advantage, anyone with experience has an advantage. That applies to any job/role. There is plenty of discussion over which roles have advantages. A recent thread on emergency services discusses this in more detail. Just as much as Armed forces are rumored to give an advantage. With the Driver roles everyone is pretty equal. Take the assessment and your pretty much there. WIth online sifts and structured interviews the process is pretty fair for everyone.

I believe it is illegal for any company to only advertise 'internally' but I could be wrong about this - I apologise if I am mistaken though!!!

Click to expand...

You can advertise internally only. Nothing to prevent the TOC from doing this. Quite a few companies recruit from within. It is part of the benefit of working for such companies as they support staff and often actively develop them for line of promotion.

C J Snarzell said:

Afternoon

I'm curious to know how many people usually apply for jobs advertised with a TOC?

I've dipped a few applications at the paper sift with Northern and Virgin.

The roles I have gone for have been customer based although one was for a trainee conductor.

I spoke to someone recently who states most if not all railway jobs are swamped with applications. Clearly, trainee driver jobs attract numbers in treble figures. The problem, he said, is that they get many internal applications from existing employees and their evidence based skills usually give them the edge over outsiders.

I believe it is illegal for any company to only advertise 'internally' but I could be wrong about this - I apologise if I am mistaken though!!!

I've started this thread just out of interest to see what the competition is like and generally how much interest an average job role would attract. I'm talking about a job for a customer service assistant or a gateline operative?

C J

Click to expand...

I can’t give you a figure as it varies between TOC but also between job. For example, I was recruiting for a role in my team, and we had 30 applicants. However as you say, trainee driver roles often attract hundreds (thousands in some cases).

It’s not illegal as far as I’m aware to only advertise internally, however I’ve yet to hear of a TOC only advertise internally (but would we know necessarily?).

I think it also depends on the area of the UK too as to what the job market is like etc.

Network Rail apparently only advertise externally if there is no interest internally - for signallers jobs anyhow. The pre-selection questions are heavily weighted towards people who know a bit about the job though.

When I applied and succeeded my TOC said to us in week one of training that over 30,000 applicants applied. Madness. Think they took on roughly 300 out of that recruitment drive.

Joliver said:

When I applied and succeeded my TOC said to us in week one of training that over 30,000 applicants applied. Madness. Think they took on roughly 300 out of that recruitment drive.

Click to expand...

WOW.

When we started our driver course we were told for each of us (18, mainline and depot) that made it, around 340 people didn’t. 6120, I thought that was madness.

Blimey! I think train driving is certainly a recognised career with good wages, good hours and like another member has stated, you don't need qualifications to get the job. Unfortunately, the volume of applications from other candidates is a bit off putting and I don't want to put myself through more disappointment.

The son of a friend is 22 and he has got on with a TOC as a customer service assistant. His long term goal is to be a driver but he has deliberately avoided any applications until now because he wants to build up some work/life experience first with the company and establish himself as a reliable employee (i.e. good attendance, good supervisor references).

I seem to remember he too applied for a few low level jobs such as a CS assistant, a platform host and even a train cleaner but was knocked back. This is a lad with eight A grade GCSEs, A levels and a strong academic background! I think ANY job on the railway is in demand and people will chuck their hat in the ring for most roles just to get on with a TOC!!!

C J Snarzell said:

Blimey! I think train driving is certainly a recognised career with good wages, good hours and like another member has stated, you don't need qualifications to get the job. Unfortunately, the volume of applications from other candidates is a bit off putting and I don't want to put myself through more disappointment.

The son of a friend is 22 and he has got on with a TOC as a customer service assistant. His long term goal is to be a driver but he has deliberately avoided any applications until now because he wants to build up some work/life experience first with the company and establish himself as a reliable employee (i.e. good attendance, good supervisor references).

I seem to remember he too applied for a few low level jobs such as a CS assistant, a platform host and even a train cleaner but was knocked back. This is a lad with eight A grade GCSEs, A levels and a strong academic background! I think ANY job on the railway is in demand and people will chuck their hat in the ring for most roles just to get on with a TOC!!!

Click to expand...

I would say that your friend’s son should put in an application for a driver’s role sooner rather than later. His chances of success depend on whether he would pass the psychometric tests. Providing that he passes the initial sift, he’ll be invited to compete the tests. If that he passes these, I’d say that he’d actually have more chance of getting a train driver job than the other low skilled jobs he’s previously applied for as not many people pass the tests and make it to the final driver manager interview stage. Train driver jobs are only going to become more popular in the future, so I don’t see the need for him to delay putting his application in. The psychometric tests are easier the younger you are, apart from the MMI. However, with good preparation he should pass this as he’s clearly bright enough to do so.

Joliver said:

When I applied and succeeded my TOC said to us in week one of training that over 30,000 applicants applied. Madness. Think they took on roughly 300 out of that recruitment drive.

Click to expand...

We were told the same. 2500 applicants for 4 jobs = 625 applicants per job. We got to hear stories about the most spectacular failures at interviews too. Some were comical. One Dr would only speak to the driver manager and not the HR as he was the man and the HR wasn’t. How he thought he would progress is beyond me!!

Over 3000 applicants for 4 places on my course. My manager recently told me some of the answers as to why they feel they appropriate for the job are as basic as always wanted to be a train driver. Too many people in it for the money like a freight guy I was talking to recently.

Yeah, like has been suggested by the examples here, you should never be put off applying for these roles, despite the numbers applying.

The quality of many applicants can be poor, with many impulsively applying without properly researching the respective roles.
The numbers are generally whittled down very quickly at the sift and at the assessment stages.
By being on this forum, you’ve probably already done a lot more research than many applicants.

The one way to be absolutely certain of not getting the job is to not apply! You've got to be in it to win it

Dynamonic said:

Yeah, like has been suggested by the examples here, you should never be put off applying for these roles, despite the numbers applying.

The quality of many applicants can be poor, with many impulsively applying without properly researching the respective roles.
The numbers are generally whittled down very quickly at the sift and at the assessment stages.
By being on this forum, you’ve probably already done a lot more research than many applicants.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I’ll use Freightliner as an example here; When I applied for a Trainee Driver job last august, it was whilst I was on holiday and had a spare ten minutes. There was no application form other than a simple ‘fill in your personal details here’ form. I did that, and the rest were assessments. Only when I reached the Driver Manager Interview stage was my CV required. Can’t fault their recruitment process which was ALL done on aptitude basically. They had 4,000 applicants for that recruitment drive so I was told at interview. I wasn’t offered a job, but was happy that I managed to get as far as I did. Goes to show that the psychometric assessments for driver jobs are one of the big factors involved in whittling numbers down. There was no papersift in this process at all with Freightliner.

Hats off to Freightliner for this approach though, one of the best processes out there as far as I’m concerned.

I don't think its just the railway industry that has lots of applications per job. I recently was involved in paper sifting and interviewing applicants at work. There were 14 vacancies and over 12,000 applicants. Took a while

Stigy said:

Agreed. I’ll use Freightliner as an example here; When I applied for a Trainee Driver job last august, it was whilst I was on holiday and had a spare ten minutes. There was no application form other than a simple ‘fill in your personal details here’ form. I did that, and the rest were assessments. Only when I reached the Driver Manager Interview stage was my CV required. Can’t fault their recruitment process which was ALL done on aptitude basically. They had 4,000 applicants for that recruitment drive so I was told at interview. I wasn’t offered a job, but was happy that I managed to get as far as I did. Goes to show that the psychometric assessments for driver jobs are one of the big factors involved in whittling numbers down. There was no papersift in this process at all with Freightliner.

Hats off to Freightliner for this approach though, one of the best processes out there as far as I’m concerned.

Click to expand...

This is really good to know as I am going through this process right now...

C J Snarzell said:

The problem, he said, is that they get many internal applications from existing employees and their evidence based skills usually give them the edge over outsiders.

Click to expand...

This isn’t the case these days, certainly going by my experience. The majority of trainees taken on by my TOC are “off the street” with no railway experience.

There are a couple of reasons for this:

1. If internal candidates are recruited the TOC then has to back fill the vacancy created in their old role;

2. A “blank canvas” can be at least as good and sometimes better than someone coming into driver training from another role who might have pre ordained (wrong!) ideas about the driving grade.

That’s not to say no internal candidates are successful of course - many are - but I’d urge anyone wanting to be a driver to apply directly for trainee vacancies.

For example if you join up as a guard, hoping to become driver, you will still need to pass the selection tests, just the same as someone from outside the industry. If you were unsuccessful you might then find yourself trapped in a job you never wanted in the first place.

Ordinarily certain traincrew roles attract 300-400 applicants and sifting them manually can be a headache for HR staff. Not too long ago, one train-wreck of an operator managed to somehow break the online form by over-typing a yes/no box essential to complete the form, and for one advert there were just four applicants, not the usual 400. The krypton-factor style solution to the problem was to apply in German as the form worked fine only in that language. Think that gives away which firm

I know exactly which TOC you are referring to and they use an international website for applications.

There was a technical fault with the site earlier this year and you couldn't apply for any roles. I raised the issue with them and they did remedy the problem within a few days. However, one particular job I was interested in at the time went off their vacancy board never to reappear despite their HR reassuring me that because of the online technical issues they would re-advertise some of their vacancies.

Another forum member has recently mentioned there has been further problems on this same site for submitting applications.

we'll never know how many exactly but If you're talking about operational roles just think LOTS and you won't be far wrong.

You could make a freedom of information act request. Someone did that for a tube drivers job, there were over 10,000 applications, NR had 64 for a crossing keepers job.

C J Snarzell said:

I seem to remember he too applied for a few low level jobs such as a CS assistant, a platform host and even a train cleaner but was knocked back. This is a lad with eight A grade GCSEs, A levels and a strong academic background! I think ANY job on the railway is in demand and people will chuck their hat in the ring for most roles just to get on with a TOC!!!

Click to expand...

Put yourself in the employers shoes. Staff turnover costs money and affects output. They will probably want to choose someone who they feel will cost them less in this respect by sticking around for longer.

One thing school and university even don't teach by default is how to tailor yourself to be attractive to a prospective employer. Qualifications don't do any harm, but there are millions of people out there with straight As so those grades don't entitle anyone to anything in isolation.

I applied 7 years ago with my TOC and there were over 5,000 applicants for 10 positions, the next driver course after that received more than 7,000 applicants, again for 10 positions.