Victoria-Margate via Dover / Canterbury

MK Tom · 31 Jul 2019

I'm trying to tick off the Canterbury-Margate and Folkestone-Margate lines.

I'm travelling on a return from London Victoria to Margate on Sunday 18 August.

Can I take either of these lines on that ticket? i.e. travel via Ashford and either Canterbury or Dover.

If not, is there any way I can easily and cheaply cover off those lines in one go? It's really difficult / impossible to force National Rail Enquiries to only show services from Victoria and not ones via St. Pancras.

Thanks.

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 31 Jul 2019

Is there a particular itinerary you want to check the validity of?

Islineclear3_1 · 31 Jul 2019

Could get the xx.25 Vic - Canterbury West terminator (via Ashford and arriving 2hr 05min later) and then the xx.09 past from Canterbury West to Margate

Not sure if you would be allowed back via Dover/Folkestone...?

JB_B · 31 Jul 2019

MK Tom said:
I'm trying to tick off the Canterbury-Margate and Folkestone-Margate lines.

...

Assuming you mean going via Ramsgate for both of these then I couldn't spot an obvious way to do both of them using just one return ticket from London Victoria.

MK Tom said:
...
Can I take either of these lines on that ticket? i.e. travel via Ashford and either Canterbury or Dover.

I don't think a London Terminals-Margate (route: Not HS1) ticket would cover travel via Ramsgate - nor could you go via Dover/Folkestone.

MK Tom said:
...
If not, is there any way I can easily and cheaply cover off those lines in one go?

I think the similarly priced off-peak day return from London Terminals to e.g. Sandwich (route: Not HS1) would allow you Ashford-Canterbury West-Ramsgate-(Sandwich) and returning you can do (Sandwich)-Dover->Folkestone-Ashford but you'd still need something else for Margate-Ramsgate.

Probably you know this already - Aug 18 is the last day of the SouthEastern Summer Offer ( https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/destinations-and-offers/offers/summer-offer ) which might help.

MK Tom · 1 Aug 2019

Is a Victoria-Dover Priory return valid via Margate and Chatham? NRE is refusing to show that as an option too.

It won't even show me Victoria/Charing Cross to Ramsgate via Margate as a valid route and I've done that before.

Islineclear3_1 · 1 Aug 2019

MK Tom said:
Is a Victoria-Dover Priory return valid via Margate and Chatham? NRE is refusing to show that as an option too.

I would have thought a Victoria-Dover Priory return is only valid via Chatham and Canterbury East - or maybe, via Maidstone East, Ashford and Folkestone?

BluePenguin · 1 Aug 2019

robert7111a said:
I would have thought a Victoria-Dover Priory return is only valid via Chatham and Canterbury East - or maybe, via Maidstone East, Ashford and Folkestone?

This is not the case. There is no ticket from Victoria. All tickets are issued to London Terminals and routed are Plus Highspeed or Not Valid on HS1. If you buy the former then you can travel right round the coast.

I would suggest buying the ticket to Margate, allowing you travel via Canterbury West on the outward and via Dover Priory on the return.

BluePenguin · 1 Aug 2019

JB_B said:
I don't think a London Terminals-Margate (route: Not HS1) ticket would cover travel via Ramsgate - nor could you go via Dover/Folkestone.

Yes it would. The OP could travel to Margate via Canterbury one way and via Dover on the other. There is no restriction from preventing them from going either way. My sister frequently does a similar journey once a week to visit friends, as did I back in my college days

Direct trains are always allowed. The OP could travel St Pancras - Margate via Dover, get off and change platform and then do Margate - St Pancras via Canterbury. Easy!

MK Tom · 1 Aug 2019

robert7111a said:
I would have thought a Victoria-Dover Priory return is only valid via Chatham and Canterbury East - or maybe, via Maidstone East, Ashford and Folkestone?

Yeah it'll give me the Maidstone route but not via Margate and Chatham...

MK Tom · 1 Aug 2019

BluePenguin said:
This is not the case. There is no ticket from Victoria. All tickets are issued to London Terminals and routed are Plus Highspeed or Not Valid on HS1. If you buy the former then you can travel right round the coast.

I would suggest buying the ticket to Margate, allowing you travel via Canterbury West on the outward and via Dover Priory on the return.

Why would the high speed ticket be valid right round the coast but the not HS1 not be? That's my issue - it only shows the high speed ticket for Margate-London via Dover or Dover-London via Chatham.

JB_B · 1 Aug 2019

BluePenguin said:
This is not the case. There is no ticket from Victoria. All tickets are issued to London Terminals and routed are Plus Highspeed or Not Valid on HS1. If you buy the former then you can travel right round the coast.

I would suggest buying the ticket to Margate, allowing you travel via Canterbury West on the outward and via Dover Priory on the return.

Yes - it's much easier if you have a Plus Highspeed ticket and start from St Pancras (I think the OP was originally asking for route: Not Valid on HS1 )

JB_B · 1 Aug 2019

MK Tom said:
Why would the high speed ticket be valid right round the coast but the not HS1 not be? That's my issue - it only shows the high speed ticket for Margate-London via Dover or Dover-London via Chatham.

Valid from St Pancras because of the direct train rule. With the summer sale you should be able to do St Pancras to Margate for £20 return. (SE say these are valid on HS1).

See e.g. http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?orig=STP&dest=MAR&odate=20190818&otime=1155&maxres=10&maxch=5 and reverse - there are direct trains over both the routes you're after.)

BluePenguin · 1 Aug 2019

I agree with the above, I did notice that the OP was asking from Victoria although as stated it is easier from St Pancras. Only 20 minutes away on the Victoria line too. From experience of having lived in East Kent for 20 years, it is highly unlikely that you will have any issues going either way. The ticket prices also the same for many stations, most conductors should accept them without issue - and issue a zero excess if not

yorkie · 1 Aug 2019

MK Tom said:
Why would the high speed ticket be valid right round the coast but the not HS1 not be? That's my issue - it only shows the high speed ticket for Margate-London via Dover or Dover-London via Chatham.

If you can give me an exact itinerary from the origin of the ticket to the destination with all trains listed, I can look it up very quickly and easily. If you use www.fastjp.com, rather than any booking site or NRE, you can copy and paste the link to the exact itinerary you generated. The 'Advanced mode' can be used to specify any via points. I do not always have a lot of time to analyse the maps in great detail but if you give me a link to an exact itinerary I can check very quickly and I am always happy to do this

MK Tom · 1 Aug 2019

Thanks everyone, especially for the fastjp link. That's incredibly useful. I've worked out a plan taking the 09.09 from STP and the 15.59 back from MAR. Whether I'd be able to get away with breaks of journey at Dover or Canterbury is another question!

30907 · 1 Aug 2019

MK Tom said:
Thanks everyone, especially for the fastjp link. That's incredibly useful. I've worked out a plan taking the 09.09 from STP and the 15.59 back from MAR. Whether I'd be able to get away with breaks of journey at Dover or Canterbury is another question!

Dover works only on a through train, so logically BOJ there isn't valid.
Canterbury West is a valid route anyway, so no problem. And you can use any of the obvious routes back to London from there.

Victoria-Margate via Dover / Canterbury

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