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Flooding Disruption 31 July/1 August

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darloscott

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Looks as though New Mills is also now being evacuated with trains getting held short and then turned at Marple
 

syorksdeano

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Ken H

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Latest I saw from Northern (can't remember where) stated that it expected the line would be closed for at least 3 days
that matches what BBC say about the length of evacuation. some poor bloke will have to decide when its safe again. Leave it too long and he will be flailed by the press, too early and the dam goes...
 

syorksdeano

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that matches what BBC say about the length of evacuation. some poor bloke will have to decide when its safe again. Leave it too long and he will be flailed by the press, too early and the dam goes...

Knew I had seen it somewhere
 

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unlevel42

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"...New Mills is also now being evacuated..."
This is statement a total exaggeration of the situation, have you considered the effect on people who are not at home, related etc,?
There are two stations in New Mills and a mainline passenger line in between i.e. three railway lines.
There is a deep gorge in New Mills and some instability.
Looks as though New Mills is also now being evacuated with trains getting held short and then turned at Marple
 

darloscott

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"...New Mills is also now being evacuated..."
This is statement a total exaggeration of the situation, have you considered the effect on people who are not at home, related etc,?
There are two stations in New Mills and a mainline passenger line in between i.e. three railway lines.
There is a deep gorge in New Mills and some instability.
My apologies, was a bit of mixed messages on social media... I note they did curtail trains at Marple for an hour or two but now seem to be running through to New Mills again? Certainly a lot of road bridges over wherever the river flows have been closed, and homes are being evacuated higher up the valley now. Hope for everyone's sake the thing holds long enough to allow them to drain it safely!
 

SN1 19-5

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Tis bad oop North. I know. I was in Wigan at the weekend.

Anyhow, I digress. you DO NOT NEED to below 2 million gallons of water. I might be stupid. Trust me on this one.

I saw the pics, WHY where they adding sandbags on top of the dam? Why did the workers bail out? Except one? He was shackled to the railing via a elfnsafety (?) line. He got off eventually. Poor sod. I bet that he panicked a bit.

Why was the bypass just dribbling out?
 
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KingJ

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WHY where they adding sandbags on top of the dam?

The spillway was damaged, exposing the material underneath to erosion. That material being the wall of the dam.

Placing sandbags on top of that section prevents it from overflowing on to the damaged bit of the spillway, thus helping to reduce the risk of the dam failing through erosion of the dam wall.
 

_toommm_

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Hope Valley line now closed too, due to the risk of flooding from the dam. No services between Manchester and Sheffield.
https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates

Services were diverted via Huddersfield last night - the last service from Manchester to Doncaster was caped at Sheffield, with the last service from Sheffield to the Airport caped at Piccadilly, then running the last service to Sheffield half an hour late throughout.
 

edwin_m

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Hope Valley line now closed too, due to the risk of flooding from the dam. No services between Manchester and Sheffield.
https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates
That must indicate a significant risk of undermining the viaduct where it crosses the valley at New Mills. The Chinley to Hazel Grove route isn't really vulnerable anywhere else. Services from Manchester via New Mills Central are also now being turned back at Marple, which suggests concern about erosion where the railway is on the slopes above the Goyt just east of New Mills station.

Hope there's enough flood attenuation in between for the centre of Stockport not to be at risk.
 

JohnB57

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This has attracted attention from over the pond. As a Boeing pilot, Juan Browne's YouTube blogs are a good source of info and industry intelligence on the 737 Max situation but, randomly, he's posted on Toddbrook now. Love his pronunciation of "Durrby Shyer"...
 

furnessvale

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That must indicate a significant risk of undermining the viaduct where it crosses the valley at New Mills. The Chinley to Hazel Grove route isn't really vulnerable anywhere else. Services from Manchester via New Mills Central are also now being turned back at Marple, which suggests concern about erosion where the railway is on the slopes above the Goyt just east of New Mills station.

Hope there's enough flood attenuation in between for the centre of Stockport not to be at risk.
The map of the worst case scenario flooding should the dam collapse catastrophically, shows that the Hope Valley line will be unaffected. The question has to be asked, why is the line closed?
 

30907

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The map of the worst case scenario flooding should the dam collapse catastrophically, shows that the Hope Valley line will be unaffected. The question has to be asked, why is the line closed?
I think edwin_m's post (quoted by you) is as good a suggestion as any. The increased volume of water down the Goyt would be a factor, and it wouldn't take long to reach Marple if the dam went.
 

furnessvale

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I think edwin_m's post (quoted by you) is as good a suggestion as any. The increased volume of water down the Goyt would be a factor, and it wouldn't take long to reach Marple if the dam went.
The point is that the official maps show what will happen. If NR take no notice of the best advice available what is the point of the UK spending £millions producing such advice. NR and the UK may just as well save all that cash, tune into forums like this and act accordingly. (No offence intended to other posters).
 

furnessvale

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edwin_m

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May be precautionary - they may not want to send passenger trains into the area in case the line is blocked while they are on their way?

Just guessing - not trying to defend.
 

Greybeard33

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I think edwin_m's post (quoted by you) is as good a suggestion as any. The increased volume of water down the Goyt would be a factor, and it wouldn't take long to reach Marple if the dam went.
The Environment Agency map does show the Marple line passing through the amber flood risk area between Marple and Strines. The line was closed for a while earlier yesterday because of actual flooding in this area.
 

Greybeard33

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That is an amber alert which are quite common and no reason to close the railway. There are 10 such warnings currently around the UK.

The "Life threatening" map shows no effect on the Hope Valley line.
I suspect that the red area would rapidly get extended downstream if the dam began to collapse. They have to balance the risk against the disruption caused by "crying wolf". The further away, the longer there is to evacuate.
 

matacaster

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The spillway was damaged, exposing the material underneath to erosion. That material being the wall of the dam.

Placing sandbags on top of that section prevents it from overflowing on to the damaged bit of the spillway, thus helping to reduce the risk of the dam failing through erosion of the dam wall.

Surprised they haven't dumped concrete onto damaged section of spillway from helicopter as a temporary fix to stabilise, then when set repeat with reinforcing bars or steel hawsers this time.
 

edwin_m

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Surprised they haven't dumped concrete onto damaged section of spillway from helicopter as a temporary fix to stabilise, then when set repeat with reinforcing bars or steel hawsers this time.
Would it be wise to drop heavy items onto an already weaked earth bank? I read that the RAF was blocking the channels that bring water into the reservoir, although I'm not sure what happens to the water if they do that - maybe they have set up some pipes to divert it downstream. Whatever, the water can't really end up anywhere other than in the Goyt unless they start a mass trucking operation over the hill to the next watershed.
 

furnessvale

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Would it be wise to drop heavy items onto an already weaked earth bank? I read that the RAF was blocking the channels that bring water into the reservoir, although I'm not sure what happens to the water if they do that - maybe they have set up some pipes to divert it downstream. Whatever, the water can't really end up anywhere other than in the Goyt unless they start a mass trucking operation over the hill to the next watershed.
The Chinook has been dropping 1 tonne bags into the hole on the face of the spillway starting from the bottom.

The latest images show the bags are nearly at the top.

A single row of sandbags has been laid along the top of the spillway to increase its height by approx 6". Last reports at 0900 said the water was now 8" down from the spillway top and falling with lots of pumps at work, presumably including the normal drain valves.

No rain so far today but it is clouding over as I type.
 

158756

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The map of the worst case scenario flooding should the dam collapse catastrophically, shows that the Hope Valley line will be unaffected. The question has to be asked, why is the line closed?

Which map is this? If you mean the extent of the severe flood warning, if there was a large release of water from the dam it certainly wouldn't stay in Whaley Bridge.

Do we actually know the Hope Valley line is closed because of the Whaley Bridge situation rather than some other flooding or landslip?
 

sprinterguy

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I read that the RAF was blocking the channels that bring water into the reservoir, although I'm not sure what happens to the water if they do that - maybe they have set up some pipes to divert it downstream. Whatever, the water can't really end up anywhere other than in the Goyt unless they start a mass trucking operation over the hill to the next watershed.
Yes, the Manchester Evening News reported that they intend to "Use 400 tonnes of aggregate to divert water from entering the reservoir and into other surrounding watercourses designed for this purpose". If I recall correctly, there is a channel running the length of the north bank of the reservoir for the Todd Brook, after which the reservoir is named, to run in, completely bypassing the reservoir itself (There is also an overflow from the reservoir into the brook near the dam). Ultimately it still ends up flowing into the River Goyt as you state, though.
 
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