Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Good grief!!!
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Toddbrook Reservoir damaged - Whaley Bridge evacuated
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LeylandLen
Member
From NR today @0749 ..
Flooding between Hazel Grove and Buxton means that trains are currently suspended between these stations. Lines between Hazel Grove / Marple and Sheffield are also blocked due to the ongoing risk of the dam collapsing at Toddbrook Reservoir.
Obviously alternate road transport available for passengers ; Im interested to know how they deal with freight diversions, given that route knowledge and availablity of suitable locomotives could be a problem .
Flooding between Hazel Grove and Buxton means that trains are currently suspended between these stations. Lines between Hazel Grove / Marple and Sheffield are also blocked due to the ongoing risk of the dam collapsing at Toddbrook Reservoir.
Obviously alternate road transport available for passengers ; Im interested to know how they deal with freight diversions, given that route knowledge and availablity of suitable locomotives could be a problem .
ANDYS
Member
I completely understand the situation in Whaley Bridge but if the Hope Valley lines are closed due to the risk of flooding, bearing in mind that the line is higher than the dam and some considerable distance away, how come the local roads which are equally distant and below the dam are still open?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I think a terminator at Chinley from the east would have to go to New Mills South Junction to reverse, so it would depend where the "danger area" to the railway is perceived to be. Also the authorities may not be keen on having the railway bring people into the area who might try to continue their journeys towards Manchester along roads that are either closed already or may be closed if things get worse.
oddiesjack
Member
I would be very concerned about the integrity of the high banking down to the River Goyt below where Buxworth Junction used to be, were the dam to give way. The river sweeps round a curve here, and there are thousands of tons of stone tipped here to support the B6062 and the railway, which is further supported by an engineering brick retaining wall ("half-arches " locally) from road level. The surge of water that would hit this curve in the event of a dam burst does not bear thinking about.
furnessvale
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As I have mentioned in another thread, the highest threat level to the Hope Valley line is currently amber of which there are currently 9 around the country.
Amber means "be prepared", not stop everything.
"Be prepared" means be ready to stop things if the situation worsens. This could be achieved by posting a lookout on affected rail bridges or even having a man at the dam to phone in should there be any movement.
Once again, stopping the job does not stop people from travelling, it means they go by road which, as we all know, is sooo much safer.
ps. Every freight train from the quarries is cancelled but the road hauliers are having a field day!
Amber means "be prepared", not stop everything.
"Be prepared" means be ready to stop things if the situation worsens. This could be achieved by posting a lookout on affected rail bridges or even having a man at the dam to phone in should there be any movement.
Once again, stopping the job does not stop people from travelling, it means they go by road which, as we all know, is sooo much safer.
ps. Every freight train from the quarries is cancelled but the road hauliers are having a field day!
Killingworth
Established Member
Scheduled freight from and to Earles Sidings is still using the Hope Valley to go east, then north or south from Dore West Junction. I can't immediately see why freight scheduled via Dore West for Tunstead can't run as the line seems well clear of the apparent danger zone above Whaley Bridge. Signalling issues?
Obviously TPE and East Midlands services can't run through the high risk zone around the Goyt valley just now. I'd have thought that might have been resolved before Monday evening, but best to be safe!
It's a shame Northern can't run a shuttle service up the Hope Valley to Edale or Chinley. Quite a lot now use that part of the line, more than passenger number statistics may show (see Northern ticket machine thread). Trouble is the service uses crews and stock from the west side.
Latest situation at 13.41; https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/serv...TaygcoKNDF1FQCbeG9RmYwLSoStZh3rysfKzZ8Wjk645s
Obviously TPE and East Midlands services can't run through the high risk zone around the Goyt valley just now. I'd have thought that might have been resolved before Monday evening, but best to be safe!
It's a shame Northern can't run a shuttle service up the Hope Valley to Edale or Chinley. Quite a lot now use that part of the line, more than passenger number statistics may show (see Northern ticket machine thread). Trouble is the service uses crews and stock from the west side.
Latest situation at 13.41; https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/serv...TaygcoKNDF1FQCbeG9RmYwLSoStZh3rysfKzZ8Wjk645s
edwin_m
Veteran Member
National Rail Enquiries says police have requested closure of the lines: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/227802.aspx
Killingworth
Established Member
I'm quietly confident some passenger trains may run up the Hope Valley by Monday, come what may! Whether they get to Chinley and beyond is not so clear in my crystal ball.
I think you meant to write: With rail firms being fined for not taking reasonable steps to prevent injuries to passengers, it’s not surprising they take a very cautious approach to risk. That's the way courts see the law of the land.
DerekC
Established Member
If it makes you feel better, every reservoir above 25000 cubic metres (Toddbrook is about 1.3M cubic metres, I can't find a figure for Coombs) has to have appointed a supervising engineer drawn from a list called the "Reservoir Panel" kept by the EA. The engineer is responsible for supervising the maintenance of the reservoir, reporting on it every 12 months and carrying out an inspection every 10 years. It remains to be seen what the problem was at Toddbrook. Unless the flow was way beyond anything that could have been predicted, it seems likely that there was an underlying problem of some sort - but this should come out of the investigation.
This arrangement dates back to at least 1930, but on further reading, it seems that in 2010 a standards-based approach was replaced by a risk-based approach, which has caused much discussion on the definition of a high risk reservoir. Since this is precisely the kind of change (in the fire protection area) that seems to be behind the Grenfell disaster, I am left wondering. Perhaps we have been lucky this week.
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bramling
Veteran Member
I see they’ve managed to find a couple of residents protesting it’s “health and safety gone mad”. I certainly wouldn’t be taking that chance, and especially not if I were tasked with making that decision on behalf of others (in this case a whole town’s worth of people).
Monty
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RAF has been doing a fine job today, Those Chinook pilots are certainly earning their keep!
I despaired at that article too. Clearly the guy with the "H&S gone mad" quote hasn't yet watched the BBC News Analysis, whereby the inner structure of the dam is basically non-compacted mud and clay from the 19th century holding back millions of gallons of water...
I didn't see that but I agree with you. It was the expression 'not preventing injuries to passengers do silly things' that I thought rather inappropriate when describing the way that the courts work.
Correction: at one point they do say the core is puddle[d] clay, which is trampled to get the porosity out and the lumps to bind. It's what canals were lined with (not "built of" as the BBC says) and they used to drive herds of cattle up and down the canal to do it.
They also say the dam itself still seems to be basically sound and watertight, although New Civil Engineer says there is a history of leaks and repairs.
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From a discussion I was having with a colleague earlier, it sounds like the reservoir is a header for the nearby (lengthy) canal and not one for drinking water, so even with the low water levels after it has been partially drained, it presumably shouldn't cause a shortage of water locally
That’s what I’d read too.
It seems like the most dangerous time has passed, and we should probably give a nod to those that dealt with the initial emergency.
As a home owner near a major river I can only imagine the stress that the locals would have felt when it first started to break up and with more heavy rain forecasted.
Let’s hope that the residents of Whaley Bridge and others in the area can get back to normal soon.
EA in England, NRW in Wales and SEPA in Scotland. This has been an ongoing issue of low priority due to squeezed budgets; the reduction in size of reservoir that requires inspections and planning a few years ago was quite substantial.
The spillway itself is odd too. It's a secondary spillway added when the dam was over 100 years old already. I suppose in a way it's done it's job, as had it not been there the time it gave up set up pumps wouldn't have been there.
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