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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Andy Walker

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Would be surprised. I reckon late September/early October. The west side 195s are suffering faults everyday - often at key stations (i.e. Oxford Road) which Northern will get stung financially in the pocket for causing delays. Until these teething problems are ironed out I doubt Northern will want to take risks.

I can't see 6-car formations between Manchester Airport to Blackpool North with platform capacity at the Airport becoming an increasingly constraining issue. Northern should have ordered more 4 cars and less 3 cars - hindsight's a wonderful thing.
Blackpool to Manchester needs 6 cars, people are often left on the platforms at rush hour, and the capacity issue though the Castlefield corridor means this is the only way solve the problem (plus they lengthened a few platforms to accommodate the train lengths)
 
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Halifaxlad

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Just spotted one on Leeds, they look great!

Haven't been on one yet although I expect to get used to them once they start operating on the Aire Valley.

Anyway first impressions:

Look to have plenty of tables.

Small windows in comparison to 170's & 333's that is a bit of a shame.

They do look quite cheap although that maybe because one of the cars doesn't appear to have much underneath.

I found that quite interesting.
 

Greybeard33

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Blackpool to Manchester needs 6 cars, people are often left on the platforms at rush hour, and the capacity issue though the Castlefield corridor means this is the only way solve the problem (plus they lengthened a few platforms to accommodate the train lengths)
Well, the Blackpool to Hazel Grove services cannot become 6-car. Although the Hazel Grove platforms are plenty long enough, the layover sidings are only 121m, 5-car maximum. Although the original plan was for the Blackpool services to go to Macclesfield, where 6 cars could be accommodated, not Hazel Grove. Maybe the better performance of the 331 vice the 319 might make this route feasible?

Also I think that, after the December timetable change, the Blackpool to Airport 331 will have to be stacked on top of the Liverpool to Airport 195 in the same Airport platform, meaning neither can be longer than 4-car. Unless one of these services terminates at Wilmslow intead of the Airport.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Well, the Blackpool to Hazel Grove services cannot become 6-car. Although the Hazel Grove platforms are plenty long enough, the layover sidings are only 121m, 5-car maximum. Although the original plan was for the Blackpool services to go to Macclesfield, where 6 cars could be accommodated, not Hazel Grove. Maybe the better performance of the 331 vice the 319 might make this route feasible?

Also I think that, after the December timetable change, the Blackpool to Airport 331 will have to be stacked on top of the Liverpool to Airport 195 in the same Airport platform, meaning neither can be longer than 4-car. Unless one of these services terminates at Wilmslow intead of the Airport.

What are the platform length unit capacity at the following stations between Macclesfield and Stockport:-
Prestbury
Adlington (Cheshire)
Poynton
Bramhall
Cheadle Hulme

With regards to Wilmslow station, I cannot see any terminating trains being allowed to block running lines into any of the four platforms there, but Alderley Edge already has an existing known turnback siding that has been used for many years.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Would be surprised. I reckon late September/early October. The west side 195s are suffering faults everyday - often at key stations (i.e. Oxford Road) which Northern will get stung financially in the pocket for causing delays. Until these teething problems are ironed out I doubt Northern will want to take risks.

I can't see 6-car formations between Manchester Airport to Blackpool North with platform capacity at the Airport becoming an increasingly constraining issue. Northern should have ordered more 4 cars and less 3 cars - hindsight's a wonderful thing.

With regard to regular faults on the 195s, it seems that the 331s have had a much smoother entry into service than their diesel cousins.
 

Greybeard33

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With regards to Wilmslow station, I cannot see any terminating trains being allowed to block running lines into any of the four platforms there, but Alderley Edge already has an existing known turnback siding that has been used for many years.
Wilmslow also has a turnback siding, accessible from the Styal lines.

The 0613 Lime Street to Wilmslow and the 0748 return service, which are booked as a 6-car 195 formation, reverse in Platform 2. They do not need to use the siding. These services bypass the Airport and replace the Lime Street to Airport services in this hour.

If this service pattern were extended to the standard hour, it would clear Airport platform space for the Blackpool services to be worked by 6-car 331 formations.
 

Greybeard33

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What are the platform length unit capacity at the following stations between Macclesfield and Stockport:-
Prestbury
Adlington (Cheshire)
Poynton
Bramhall
Cheadle Hulme
Of the stations you list, Prestbury, Bramhall and Cheadle Hulme have platforms less than 6-car length, in the Down direction only. But 331s have Selective Door Opening, which could be used if a 6-car formation called at any of these stations.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Wilmslow also has a turnback siding, accessible from the Styal lines. The 0613 Lime Street to Wilmslow and the 0748 return service, which are booked as a 6-car 195 formation, reverse in Platform 2. They do not need to use the siding. These services bypass the Airport and replace the Lime Street to Airport services in this hour.

If this service pattern were extended to the standard hour, it would clear Airport platform space for the Blackpool services to be worked by 6-car 331 formations.

Omitting Manchester Airport from any extended pattern services from Liverpool and beyond must surely have drawbacks from a passenger point of view.
 

xotGD

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I believe 331 002 (3 car from Allerton) and 331 101 (4 car was at Doncaster) are now at Skipton to commence Aire Valley crew training.
K
Last night these two units were stabled in the siding at the Leeds end of the station. Easily viewable if anyone wants to spot them.
 

Harvey B

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Last night these two units were stabled in the siding at the Leeds end of the station. Easily viewable if anyone wants to spot them.
You'll be able to see them as you come in and out of skipton
 
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Harvey B

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Also whats the plan for 331002? Ate they just using it for driver training or will they use it for service aswell?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Also whats the plan for 331002? Ate they just using it for driver training or will they use it for service aswell?
As far as I'm aware just training. Theoretically the 3-car units in Yorkshire could be pressed into use in a pinch, but only if there's a crew available who are passed out on the type- which will become more likely as the training progresses.
 

Harvey B

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As far as I'm aware just training. Theoretically the 3-car units in Yorkshire could be pressed into use in a pinch, but only if there's a crew available who are passed out on the type- which will become more likely as the training progresses.
Thanks
 

superkev

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As far as I'm aware just training. Theoretically the 3-car units in Yorkshire could be pressed into use in a pinch, but only if there's a crew available who are passed out on the type- which will become more likely as the training progresses.
I wonder how many skipton crews they have to train before they appear on the Aire valley.
I seem to remember someone said on here that for drivers it was 7 days with just the last day out on the line and 4 drivers per course.
Not sure if they have commenced but I've not heard of the units appearing out of the sidings yet.
K
 

Harvey B

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I wonder how many skipton crews they have to train before they appear on the Aire valley.
I seem to remember someone said on here that for drivers it was 7 days with just the last day out on the line and 4 drivers per course.
Not sure if they have commenced but I've not heard of the units appearing out of the sidings yet.
K
Do any leeds crews need to train for the 331s on Airedale turns (for example if they aren't able to sign Leeds to Dincaster) or won't they need to train for them becuase they're the same crews that work both Leeds to Donny and Airedale turns
 

ash39

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331108 and 331109 were working between Leeds & Doncaster today. I had journeys on both.

Initial impressions were the interior ambience could be more uplifting. Lots of black and navy plastic, particularly on the bulkheads and seat backs. These should be lighter to my eyes. The mid grey on the TFL 345's for example looks classy, modern and should still resit wear pretty well.

Having said that, they are very nice units. Carpeted floors, plug sockets & tables - a vast improvement over the 32X's they replace. The windows sit low as well giving a nice airy feel. Good legroom at tables, similar to an 80X in that respect.

The acceleration and ride is also a lot smoother than a 32X, although the vacuum circuit breaker opens and closes with a loud bang through neutral sections which might startle a few passengers not expecting it.

Also disappointing - 331108's toilet was locked out of use and the PIS was displaying 'out of service' the whole way - not good to see on such a new train.
 

superkev

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Do any leeds crews need to train for the 331s on Airedale turns (for example if they aren't able to sign Leeds to Dincaster) or won't they need to train for them becuase they're the same crews that work both Leeds to Donny and Airedale turns
I think Leeds and Skipton crews work the triangle and Doncaster and Leeds crews work Leeds Doncaster.
I may be wrong but I believe there are well over 200 drivers at Leeds and as most work the triangle at some time training may take a while particularly during the holiday season.
K
 

Harvey B

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I think Leeds and Skipton crews work the triangle and Doncaster and Leeds crews work Leeds Doncaster.
I may be wrong but I believe there are well over 200 drivers at Leeds and as most work the triangle at some time training may take a while particularly during the holiday season.
K
Thanks, much appreciate it
 

Chris217

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At least 4 331s on Edge Hill depot when I passed it yesterday. 331/0s too.
331011 was one of them
 

D Almond

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Seen my first 331 at Preston this morning. It was 004 still with wrappings on the seats.

20190805_065545.jpg
 
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