TheBigD
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GWR Dec 19 timetable
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A quick summary of what's on RTT for Jan 2020 in terms of main line departures from Paddington, then:
Off-peak departures on the Main lines:
xx02 Bristol TM via Bath
xx04 Penzance/Plymouth
xx07 Bedwyn
xx10 Heathrow Express
[xx15 Bristol TM via Bristol Parkway - unadvertised]
xx18 Swansea
xx20 Oxford
xx25 Heathrow Express
xx28 Cheltenham Spa
xx32 Bristol TM via Bath
xx34 Newbury / xx36 Exeter St Davids (alternate hours)
xx40 Heathrow Express
[xx45 Bristol TM via Bristol Parkway - unadvertised]
xx48 Cardiff Central
xx50 Worcester / Great Malvern
xx55 Heathrow Express
The xx15 and xx45 will presumably be introduced during the timetable period.
Generally the xx02 and xx32 call at Didcot and the xx18 and xx48 do not.
That pattern persists through the evening peak with the following exceptions and additions:
xx00 additional to Bristol TM, first stop Chippenham (non-stop in 58 minutes!)
xx15 diverts to Swansea, still first stop Bristol Parkway
xx18 curtailed to Cardiff, calling additionally at Didcot
xx20 becomes a 387 to Didcot, first stop Maidenhead and then all stations on the relief lines
xx28 to Cheltenham runs non-stop to Didcot
xx36 extends to Exeter every hour
xx42 additional 387 to Didcot, calling Reading and Didcot only (uses the Festival Line to gain Down Relief after Reading)
No xx45 to Bristol in the peak
xx48 extends to Swansea
xx51 becomes a 387 to Didcot, first stop Maidenhead and then all stations on the relief lines
xx58 to Worcester (instead of xx50), first stop Oxford
To make up for the xx20 not extending to Oxford, there are two additional trains:
17:34 to Hereford - to allow this the 17:32 to Taunton moves to 17:30
18:28 to Banbury - to allow this the 18:28 to Cheltenham Spa moves to 18:30
There are a number of additional variations by a few minutes that I haven't listed above.
To accommodate the sheer number of departures from Paddington (I make it 18 main line departures between 1700 and 1759) without grade separation, some of these run Down Relief to Acton West and gain the Down Main from there.
Off-peak departures on the Main lines:
xx02 Bristol TM via Bath
xx04 Penzance/Plymouth
xx07 Bedwyn
xx10 Heathrow Express
[xx15 Bristol TM via Bristol Parkway - unadvertised]
xx18 Swansea
xx20 Oxford
xx25 Heathrow Express
xx28 Cheltenham Spa
xx32 Bristol TM via Bath
xx34 Newbury / xx36 Exeter St Davids (alternate hours)
xx40 Heathrow Express
[xx45 Bristol TM via Bristol Parkway - unadvertised]
xx48 Cardiff Central
xx50 Worcester / Great Malvern
xx55 Heathrow Express
The xx15 and xx45 will presumably be introduced during the timetable period.
Generally the xx02 and xx32 call at Didcot and the xx18 and xx48 do not.
That pattern persists through the evening peak with the following exceptions and additions:
xx00 additional to Bristol TM, first stop Chippenham (non-stop in 58 minutes!)
xx15 diverts to Swansea, still first stop Bristol Parkway
xx18 curtailed to Cardiff, calling additionally at Didcot
xx20 becomes a 387 to Didcot, first stop Maidenhead and then all stations on the relief lines
xx28 to Cheltenham runs non-stop to Didcot
xx36 extends to Exeter every hour
xx42 additional 387 to Didcot, calling Reading and Didcot only (uses the Festival Line to gain Down Relief after Reading)
No xx45 to Bristol in the peak
xx48 extends to Swansea
xx51 becomes a 387 to Didcot, first stop Maidenhead and then all stations on the relief lines
xx58 to Worcester (instead of xx50), first stop Oxford
To make up for the xx20 not extending to Oxford, there are two additional trains:
17:34 to Hereford - to allow this the 17:32 to Taunton moves to 17:30
18:28 to Banbury - to allow this the 18:28 to Cheltenham Spa moves to 18:30
There are a number of additional variations by a few minutes that I haven't listed above.
To accommodate the sheer number of departures from Paddington (I make it 18 main line departures between 1700 and 1759) without grade separation, some of these run Down Relief to Acton West and gain the Down Main from there.
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SteelWeelApeal
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Interestingly the up IETs are timed as diesel locomotives and the down ones as electric locomotives, presumably because that’s what they start their journey as (although why they’re locomotives rather than multiples units I don’t know, although I guess it doesn’t really matter)
Probably just that the timing load doesn't correspond to the database correctly - e.g. no explicit description for class 800 / 802 yet - you will notice that they have a trailing load of 802 tonnes.
irish_rail
Established Member
I see on the up they have managed to put the ex Plymouths leaving reading just after the ex oxfords which stop at slough. Yet again the west country being penalised to give a faster service for other destinations. Also leaving Paddington 2 minutes behind the bristol seems foolhardy, I for one will hang back a little as I don't like chasing adverse signals!!!
Mintona
Established Member
Don’t worry about following me, I’ll be gone
I’m sure it’s been the South Wales services that have followed the Slough stoppers on the up for a while.
Deleted, misunderstood.
Examples of Bristol Fasts, some advertised:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94344/2019/12/20/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94348/2019/12/20/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94349/2019/12/20/advanced
A non stop Parkway into Wales here:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94098/2019/12/20/advanced
Examples of Bristol Fasts, some advertised:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94344/2019/12/20/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94348/2019/12/20/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94349/2019/12/20/advanced
A non stop Parkway into Wales here:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94098/2019/12/20/advanced
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Again, this is another of your points which make no logistical sense. I highly doubt that GWR and Network Rail sat at a table picking on the West Country services. Cheltenham’s seem to be the first to cancel for crew issues, and services towards Cornwall seem to still have a timetable improvement.
So it is the '1H' group which are non-stop reading in the off-peak. That's Paddington to / from Bristol TM; Weston S-M; Exeter (via Bristol Parkway).
Alongwith 1B22 1615 PAD - Swansea.
The AM peak non-stoppers: (in additions to 1H's.
1A03 - 0600 Bristol TM; Bath Spa 0612-14; Chippenham 0625-27; pad arr. 0729
1L05 - 0528 Swansea; calls to parkway 0657-0702; pad arr. 0814
1A06 - 0620 Weston S-M; calls to swindon (via bath) 0738-40; pad arr. 0829
1L08 - 0628 Swansea; calls to Bristol Parkway 0757-0801; pad arr. 0914
1A09 - 0655 Taunton; calls to Bristol TM 0752-0800; Bath Spa 0811-13; Chippenham 0824-26; pad arr. 0928
Will have a look at the PM peak non-stop a little later.
Alongwith 1B22 1615 PAD - Swansea.
The AM peak non-stoppers: (in additions to 1H's.
1A03 - 0600 Bristol TM; Bath Spa 0612-14; Chippenham 0625-27; pad arr. 0729
1L05 - 0528 Swansea; calls to parkway 0657-0702; pad arr. 0814
1A06 - 0620 Weston S-M; calls to swindon (via bath) 0738-40; pad arr. 0829
1L08 - 0628 Swansea; calls to Bristol Parkway 0757-0801; pad arr. 0914
1A09 - 0655 Taunton; calls to Bristol TM 0752-0800; Bath Spa 0811-13; Chippenham 0824-26; pad arr. 0928
Will have a look at the PM peak non-stop a little later.
The Timing Loads are bit strange though - usually NR establishes SRTS in both directions for the individual timing loads.
Here it appears they have created TWO separate timing loads - one for UP and one for DOWN services. With the down being categorised as 'Electric loco + 802 tonnes' and the up being categorised as 'Diesel loco + 802 tonnes'.
That takes a bit more effort to create.
Would need someone with BPlan access to say if the corresponding Up / Down links in each timing load are present or not.
Weather it's loco + 802 tones or Multiple Unit doesn't really matter in all honesty - it's how it shows up in Trust (for the signaller looking at the traction type) which is especially useful when one uses multiple traction types to run same headcode group services.
Needs someone with inside knowledge to say why there is the difference.
Here it appears they have created TWO separate timing loads - one for UP and one for DOWN services. With the down being categorised as 'Electric loco + 802 tonnes' and the up being categorised as 'Diesel loco + 802 tonnes'.
That takes a bit more effort to create.
Would need someone with BPlan access to say if the corresponding Up / Down links in each timing load are present or not.
Weather it's loco + 802 tones or Multiple Unit doesn't really matter in all honesty - it's how it shows up in Trust (for the signaller looking at the traction type) which is especially useful when one uses multiple traction types to run same headcode group services.
Needs someone with inside knowledge to say why there is the difference.
Still Turbos on two late down trains to Oxford and one late up train.
2315 formed using the units off the Greenford and Bourne End lines
0030 formed of units that work up from Oxford.
2250 IET service from Paddington terminates at Worcestershire Parkway and runs empty to the sidings at Worcester.
2315 formed using the units off the Greenford and Bourne End lines
0030 formed of units that work up from Oxford.
2250 IET service from Paddington terminates at Worcestershire Parkway and runs empty to the sidings at Worcester.
Surely this is no different to the way that the Highland Sleeper (or anything that changes traction on route is set up).
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G65065/2019/08/06/advanced
doesn't use 125mph locomotive hauled timings all the way from Inverness to Euston (not obvious why it uses that in the first place) - likewise there is presumably a switch in SRTs at the diesel / electric changeover point - I'd imagine that RTT or maybe the feed itself is only shown to set up the first traction type in the timing set up.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G65065/2019/08/06/advanced
doesn't use 125mph locomotive hauled timings all the way from Inverness to Euston (not obvious why it uses that in the first place) - likewise there is presumably a switch in SRTs at the diesel / electric changeover point - I'd imagine that RTT or maybe the feed itself is only shown to set up the first traction type in the timing set up.
You need to base some Turbos overnight at Oxford to work the DID/OXF/BAN shuttles. The late evening fast Oxfords are Turbo worked to facilitate cycling the units from Reading+Branches to Oxford-based.
Bingo we have a winner.
CptCharlee
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Interesting with the new Penzance to Cardiff Central services roughly 3 a day and they stop at every notable station on route. Love these kind of services linking many places.
Some of the Paddington to Exeter via Westbury xx36 service extended to Plymouth
Some of the Paddington to Exeter via Westbury xx36 service extended to Plymouth
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irish_rail
Established Member
Well maybe it will make sense to you when the new timetable doesn't work. I hang back to allow the bristol to get clear. This in turn delays the train behind me and so on and so forth. 2 minute headways on an intercity railway will not work. The idea that we depart Paddington at exactly our departure time is ludicrous, half of the time wheels start turning a minute or so late as it is. This timetable will struggle in my opinion, although I'd love to be proved wrong.
We shall wait and see.
(my emphasis in bold) I had that exact same thought when I saw the proposals back in 2017. Two minutes all the way from Pad - Reading, I just couldn't see how it would work (even with improved traction and rollingstock).
Timetables are perfect on paper - but how often does the timetable run perfectly?
There just seems too little room for manouver.
And departing ontime is more than just tight dispatch procedures - the inbound conflicting moves are quite capable of preventing a starting signal going off in good time.
I've not had the time yet to look at the platforming to see what sort of impact could be occuring, in normal running.
irish_rail
Established Member
Exactly. Something like the xx02 leaving padd on 25mph platform 10 and having to weave over to the fast lines , will see it very quickly delay the xx04 Plymouth.
Do 2 minute headways get used on any of the other intercity routes???
Yes, I have no problem with running Turbos out of Paddington - quite the opposite in fact.
These positioning moves are fascinating.
Most of the xx02 Bristols appear to leave from platform 6 so should have a reasonable exit from Paddington. The xx04 mainly follows from platform 4 or 5.
Sorry I misjudged the tone of the post.
The PM peak reading Non-stoppers (in addition to the 1H's.
Ex-pad
1B22 - 1615 Swansea; Bristol Parkway 1724-26; Newport 1744-46; Cardiff 1758-1801; calls to swansea arr. 1854. **Was 1B55 - 1 HR 24 to Parkway now 1 HR 9; 2 HR 5 to Cardiff now 1 HR 43; 3 HR 8 to Swansea now 2 HR 39.
1G23 - 1628 Cheltenham; Didcot 1705-06; Swindon 1726-28; calls to Gloucester 1816-23; cheltenham 1832.
1W33 - 1658 Great Malvern; Oxford 1742-45; calls to Great Malvern arr. 1924 (as current, dep from Pad at 1622)
1B25 - 1715 Swansea; Bristol Parkway 1824-26; Newport 1845-46; Cardiff 1858-1901; calls to Swansea arr. 1953. **Was 1B63 Carmarthen.
1G25 - 1728 Cheltenham; Didcot 1802-04 ; Swindon 1822-24; calls to Gloucester 1917-24; Cheltenham arr. 1932.
1W34 - 1758 Worcester F-S; Oxford 1843-46; calls to Worcester Parkway 1953-55; Shrub Hil 2004-05; Foregate Street arr. 2007. **Was 1W36 1752 to Shrub Hill - virtually same path OXF onwards.
1C26 1800 Bristol TM (via Bath); Chippenham 1858-1900; Bath 1913-15; Bristol TM arr. 1927. **Was 1C25 1800. 1 HR 13 to chippenham now 58 min; 1 hour 29 to Bath now 1 HR 13; 1 HR 44 to Bristol now 1 HR 27.
1B28 - 1816 Carmarthen: Bristol Parkway 1926-28; Newport 1946-48; Cardiff 2000-03; calls to Swansea 2055-2105; calls to carmarthen arr. 2151. **Was 1B76 - 1814 to Swansea.
1M36 - 1828 Banbury; Oxford 1913-14; Banbury arr. 1934
1G27 - 1830 Cheltenham; Didcot 1905-06; Swindon 1923-25; calls to Gloucester 2015-22; Cheltenham arr. 2031
1W04 - 1858 Hereford; first stop Oxford 1942-44
1C29 - 1900 Bristol TM (via Bath); chippenham 1958-2000; Bath 2012-15; Bristol TM arr. 2030
1G29 - 1928 Cheltenham; Cheltenham; didcot 2002-04; Swindon 2021-23; calls to Gloucester 21318; Cheltenham arr. 2126
Some rather attractive timings there, for making the homeward journey quicker!
Ex-pad
1B22 - 1615 Swansea; Bristol Parkway 1724-26; Newport 1744-46; Cardiff 1758-1801; calls to swansea arr. 1854. **Was 1B55 - 1 HR 24 to Parkway now 1 HR 9; 2 HR 5 to Cardiff now 1 HR 43; 3 HR 8 to Swansea now 2 HR 39.
1G23 - 1628 Cheltenham; Didcot 1705-06; Swindon 1726-28; calls to Gloucester 1816-23; cheltenham 1832.
1W33 - 1658 Great Malvern; Oxford 1742-45; calls to Great Malvern arr. 1924 (as current, dep from Pad at 1622)
1B25 - 1715 Swansea; Bristol Parkway 1824-26; Newport 1845-46; Cardiff 1858-1901; calls to Swansea arr. 1953. **Was 1B63 Carmarthen.
1G25 - 1728 Cheltenham; Didcot 1802-04 ; Swindon 1822-24; calls to Gloucester 1917-24; Cheltenham arr. 1932.
1W34 - 1758 Worcester F-S; Oxford 1843-46; calls to Worcester Parkway 1953-55; Shrub Hil 2004-05; Foregate Street arr. 2007. **Was 1W36 1752 to Shrub Hill - virtually same path OXF onwards.
1C26 1800 Bristol TM (via Bath); Chippenham 1858-1900; Bath 1913-15; Bristol TM arr. 1927. **Was 1C25 1800. 1 HR 13 to chippenham now 58 min; 1 hour 29 to Bath now 1 HR 13; 1 HR 44 to Bristol now 1 HR 27.
1B28 - 1816 Carmarthen: Bristol Parkway 1926-28; Newport 1946-48; Cardiff 2000-03; calls to Swansea 2055-2105; calls to carmarthen arr. 2151. **Was 1B76 - 1814 to Swansea.
1M36 - 1828 Banbury; Oxford 1913-14; Banbury arr. 1934
1G27 - 1830 Cheltenham; Didcot 1905-06; Swindon 1923-25; calls to Gloucester 2015-22; Cheltenham arr. 2031
1W04 - 1858 Hereford; first stop Oxford 1942-44
1C29 - 1900 Bristol TM (via Bath); chippenham 1958-2000; Bath 2012-15; Bristol TM arr. 2030
1G29 - 1928 Cheltenham; Cheltenham; didcot 2002-04; Swindon 2021-23; calls to Gloucester 21318; Cheltenham arr. 2126
Some rather attractive timings there, for making the homeward journey quicker!
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Mitchell Hurd
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In the latest 'Modern Railways' magazine, there's a section which lists information regarding the GWR December 2019 timetable.
I understand that a 12-coach Class 387, 17:46 from London Paddington to Didcot Parkway (calling only at Reading before Didcot I think), will be introduced.
Great for people like myself who with an Off-Peak ticket can go from Didcot or Reading (me from Didcot) to London say mid to late morning and come back on a fast 387* which all these from Paddington GWR told me (and are listed at Paddington) as Off-Peak services!
*As much as I love the IET's, I'd rather not have the hassle of seat reservations (or listening to people onboard whinging about it) onboard after a day out.
I understand that a 12-coach Class 387, 17:46 from London Paddington to Didcot Parkway (calling only at Reading before Didcot I think), will be introduced.
Great for people like myself who with an Off-Peak ticket can go from Didcot or Reading (me from Didcot) to London say mid to late morning and come back on a fast 387* which all these from Paddington GWR told me (and are listed at Paddington) as Off-Peak services!
*As much as I love the IET's, I'd rather not have the hassle of seat reservations (or listening to people onboard whinging about it) onboard after a day out.
Looks like the West Countries are timetabled for this with an extended stop at Reading (rather than taking pathing times after Slough).
Makes sense - gives a bit of performance recovery after a long run before entering the busiest part of the Main Lines, and also helps dwell times at Reading during busy periods (e.g. summer weekends)
There are three services like that in the timetable on RTT, all calling at Reading and Didcot only:
1643: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94235/2020/01/15/advanced
1742: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94236/2020/01/15/advanced
1842: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94237/2020/01/15/advanced
They're all timed as 387 but it gives no information as to how long they'll all be.
irish_rail
Established Member
Does it make sense though? Or is it just needlessly making the west country journey times longer. It seems every other route the emphasis is on speed, but for the South West we have to make do with long stops at Plymouth to couple and uncouple plus the poor path from reading with added dwell time. Seems like an opportunity to knock up to ten minutes off the Penzance to London timing isn't being taken up , partly due to the use of 5 car sets in Cornwall and partly due to poor pathing in order to speed up other services heading into London.
Other problem looks like the Up West Countries have to squeeze through Bedwyn before the stopper comes out of the turnback siding, so can't be later there
It's just a classic case of getting more and more trains to fit together - there's never a perfect solution.
In this case, putting a few minutes in a West Country is probably a pragmatic compromise.
The Planner
Veteran Member
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It doesnt take that much effort. You should see all the timing loads and SRTs that were set up for the 2 track railway for HSTs and one engine only HSTs. 222s used to have split SRTs for different lengths. 390s have a pretty pointless 110mph timing load in there too. It wasnt that long ago that some Class 4 schedules were knocking about with class 47 timing loads still. Dont get me started on some of the other freight stuff.
All booked as 8 car EMU.
There doesn't appear to be any 12 cars running between Didcot & Paddington that only stop at Reading.
There is only one 12 car that runs non stop between Paddington & Reading which is the 08.38 Paddington - Newbury:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94393/2020/01/15/advanced
(Detaches portions at Reading)
The stopping pattern for the others would appear to be all intermediate stations between Didcot / Reading & only Maidenhead & Twyford between Reading / Paddington
There is only one 12 car that runs non stop between Paddington & Reading which is the 08.38 Paddington - Newbury:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y94393/2020/01/15/advanced
(Detaches portions at Reading)
The stopping pattern for the others would appear to be all intermediate stations between Didcot / Reading & only Maidenhead & Twyford between Reading / Paddington
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