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Northern Dec 2019 Timetable Bid
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Staffordian
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As well as Middlesbrough - Newcastle via Stillington and hourly Sunday services on the mid-Cheshire line, the other proposal not to make it in is the hourly York - Scarborough service. Horden station is also not shown, but may be confirmed nearer the time. Everything else appears to be included.
Staffordian
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Indeed, the Leeds - Chester trains will stop at Low Moor from December. From Bradford, they are evenly spaced with the Bradford - Huddersfield trains, but unfortunately the northbound calls are only 7/8 minutes apart.
This was a recent (and rather strange, given the Northern Connect idea) addition to the Blackpool-York route. Did it replace calls on another service?
Sowerby Bridge is supposed to get calls on this service because it's Northern Connect.
It returned Sowerby Bridge to Bradford to the 2tph it'd had for over 20 years but lost in 2009 (though a long way off being half hourly).
Is the "aspiration" still to have two trains an hour from Chester to Altrincham (with one of them continuing on to Manchester Piccadilly)? Wasn't the original plan to have a second train per hour from Greenbank to Manchester Piccadilly before that was quashed?
Castleton Moor gives a better margin for delays.
The turnaround time is actually the same.
On closer inspection, the outward calls additionally at Great Ayton and Kildale (and obviously, Castleton Moor).
The return calls additionally at Kildale and Great Ayton too.
I do wonder if this is an attempt to attract an extra couple of passengers to the beyond Nunthorpe leg by stopping some more rather than just sending it fast(ish) to a stop where clearly it isn't getting much use.
Is this lack of staff (presumably so for the Sunday service), lack of trains or have Network Rail said no to the principle of there ever being a service via Stillington or 2tph to Scarborough?
It's a station to be served by Northern Connect because that encompasses almost every service along the Calder Valley. As far as I'm aware this never meant such a station would be served by every passing train.
Haven't heard about this for a while. Wouldn't be a surprise if it went on the back burner now they can't get to Manchester. If they are ever going to run a train terminating at Altrincham the line really needs to be rolled into the Metrolink fare system.
MetroCar4058
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Network Rail don't have the paths on the ECML for Stillington.
Glenn1969
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The new 2338 Leeds- Halifax is being extended to be a 2215 Hull- Halifax and depart Leeds 11 minutes earlier at 2327
darloscott
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Interestingly there is a handful of ECS moves at Middlesbrough presumably related to these (5Hxx) currently showing. Presume these will disappear!
northernchris
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There's some surprises in there such as the Sheffield - Hull stopper being split at Doncaster with the arrival from Sheffield going down to Adwick empty before coming back to form the return to Sheffield
Hoping there's still some more services to be added as some of the current additional peak services aren't showing
Hoping there's still some more services to be added as some of the current additional peak services aren't showing
Killingworth
Established Member
Using Platform 0 more to reduce crossings over the ECML. Trouble is Platform 0 is a long hike for interchanging passengers.
It's a station that has doubled its usage the last 10 years, with massive increases for years before that'll. It seems a shame to cut frequencies it used to have.
Does this mean the Newcastle-Middlesbrough via Stillington will never go ahead, or is it possible paths will be made available in the future?
Any sign of the missing 23:00 Piccadilly to Hadfield Train which since the timetable change has left an hour gap at the time a lot of people are coming home from a night out? It was a big improvement to have half hourly throughout the evening but is very annoying this one is still missing.
Staffordian
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And also has much better connections with TPE services at Seamer. Now 7 mins at Seamer towards York - used to be 1 min, or in practice 61 mins. Towards Filey/Brid now 23/24 mins, rather than 54 and can also change at Scarborough, which would be an easier change.
MetroCar4058
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I’m not sure, I didn’t find out that much detail. I’d assume they’d have to find a way around it as isn’t it a franchise agreement?
If paths can't be found now, the chances of paths being found in the future are slim.
Because the junction at Ferryhill is on the flat it's not just a case of finding paths in one direction. eg a Middlesbrough to Newcastle service doesn't just need a path northward, you need a path clear on the southbound (up) line in order to allow the service to get from the Stillington line across the Southbound (Down) line to the Northbound (up) line. If the service was allowed it would use up more capacity than just the path needed for the service it's self. The current situation happens a Darlington, with limited access across the ECML.
I think the service is a commitment, but necessarily the route, in theory the service could run up the Durham coast line, missing out some stations. eg calls at Middlesbrough-Thornaby-Stockton-Hartlepool-Sunderland-Newcastle. It might give a slightly quicker service than the normal stopping service, but not much quicker.
edit :- after some consideration, I think the franchise commitment mentioned calls at Middlesbrough, Thornaby, Stockton, Durham & Newcastle. So now I'm not so sure.
**unfortunately my old laptop Hard drive failed a few months ago and I've lost all my bookmarks to various documents (which I'm slowly building up again on my new Laptop).
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Likewise Mytholmroyd.
It seems odd for the Chester service to call at Sowerby Bridge and Mytholmroyd (and soon Low Moor also) while the service terminating at Victoria runs fast Halifax - Hebden Bridge. Presumably a pathing issue.
Majority of the Liverpool Lime Street - Crewe (via Manchester Airport) services and vice versa seem to be omitted from RTT (I'm guessing they haven't decided on what to do about these services)?
It also looks like the service patterns for the local stations on the Airport line will be changing again.
It also looks like the service patterns for the local stations on the Airport line will be changing again.
Marton
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The connections to TPE at Middlesbrough have been messed up again. Arrivals from Nunthorpe just after the TPE leaves: 45 minute wait quite often. It is now 20.
Sweetjesus
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For Stockport line, it appears that certain services are missing - not sure if they're actually removed or they're not inputted yet, an example being 0606 from Hazel Grove. I believe there are a few more missing throughout the day.
Greybeard33
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Timetables for the Atherton line have been loaded. These confirm that through services between Kirkby and Victoria are being restored, but still no 4th hourly service. The Leeds via Brighouse and Blackburn via Burnley services will mostly terminate at Wigan Wallgate, but a few will go to North Western in the peaks. No interworking.
The Southport services will all be via Bolton, with no more interworking between the Stalybridge and Alderley Edge services. The Stalybridge stoppers are still timed for a 75mph Sprinter throughout, so no credit for possible improved 769 performance under the wires between Bolton and Victoria. Southport to Victoria will take 80 minutes on the Stalybridge service, with stops at Moses Gate, Farnworth and Kearsley, versus 70 minutes on the current Leeds service via Atherton. I hope the users group are satisfied with their achievement!
The Southport services will all be via Bolton, with no more interworking between the Stalybridge and Alderley Edge services. The Stalybridge stoppers are still timed for a 75mph Sprinter throughout, so no credit for possible improved 769 performance under the wires between Bolton and Victoria. Southport to Victoria will take 80 minutes on the Stalybridge service, with stops at Moses Gate, Farnworth and Kearsley, versus 70 minutes on the current Leeds service via Atherton. I hope the users group are satisfied with their achievement!
Greybeard33
Established Member
There are also no Blackpool to Manchester Airport services loaded yet, only the Airport to Blackpools.
Airport platform allocations look a bit of a mess. The Lime Street to Airport semi-fasts are mostly stacked on top of the TPE Cleethorpes trains, which will not fit if TPE strengthen these to 6-car double 185s as promised.
Staffordian
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Conversely, there are no Hazel Grove to Blackpool services loaded, only the Blackpool to Hazel Groves.
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