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CrossCountry anticipated disruption Summer 2019

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sprinterguy

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That brought double Vomiters into MAN albeit on a reduced frequency. I think MAN-BHM actually had the same number of carriages per hour albeit condensed into one long train rather than two shorter trains!
Indeed, and with people being discouraged from traveling the trains were lovely and quiet. From a personal perspective it was a breath of fresh air compared to the usual overcrowded conditions. Proper length trains at half the usual frequency was a joy.
 
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GoneSouth

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On the other hand the Derby to Cheltenham corridor had one train every 2 to 3 hours on what is normally a 3 to 4 train per hour service. I can remember a Train Manager being confused about the amount of people waiting to go to Birmingham from Derby after a 3 hour wait in which a good number could not get on the train.
Indeed, I’m aware of a number of people waiting at Cheltenham for a train that was cancelled and the next was so overcrowded they weren’t allowed to board. Needless to say the only warm place to wait on the station was also so full they couldn’t get in. That ended up being a 2 hour wait in the middle of Winter followed by 3 hours of sitting on the floor, not acceptable as some of the passengers were in their eighties.

Ah well, at least the full return fare was refunded as the return portion incurred a 150 minute delay. What a bizarre way to run a transport service!

Is that the sort of “service” we can expect from XC until they resolve this dispute or, more likely, reach the end of the franchise. Sigh...
 

pt_mad

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I should have been clearer if you apply for a job as I did and the terms and conditions stated that Sunday working was required but was outside the working week you would be expected to work them (we don't have to even if there is no cover if the Sunday falls within a period of leave) however if they are purely voluntary then I agree with you.

Thats what happens at Scotrail. You HAVE, and are conracted to, work your rostered Sundays although they are paid as overtiime. The confusion arises with the public as they assume "overtime" means "voluntary". Its the same at alot of TOCs but people hear that Sundays are staffed fully on overtime and assume that means everyone working Sundays is a volunteer. We can cover the services with rostered Sundays but with holidays and sickness sometimes volunteers are required to maintain the service. But thats no different to any other day.
It does make you wonder how some arrangements would actually stand if challenged or employees said they're not available on some Sundays.
 
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Starmill

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It does make you wonder how some arrangements would actually stand if challenged or employees said they're not available on some Sundays.
Overtime is only compulsory only if it is a part of one's contract of employment - although an employee can't usually be compelled to work for more than 48 hours in a week without written agreement. One would have hoped that the individual contracts do not leave too much ambiguity.
 

embers25

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The pre-strike cancellations have kicked in. Worst one so far is the 1525 from Plymouth is cancelled, so passengers are to travel on the 1600 GWR service from Plymouth to Exeter St Davids, changing for the 1824 CrossCountry service from Exeter St Davids to Manchester Piccadilly. Passengers should change at Birmingham New Street for the 2156 CrossCountry service to Leeds. Upon arrival at Leeds, please board the 0042 TransPennine Express service to York arriving at 0108 instead of 2147, a mere 201 minutes late!!!! You'd think they'd at least hold the 2103 to Leeds at Birmingham if the train from Exeter is late!

Why they couldn't arrange acceptance via London I don't know as passengers would've arrived at 2255. Or maybe held the 1845 from Reading for 10 minutes for a 2246 arrival. Total lack of customer care from XC.
 

30907

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The pre-strike cancellations have kicked in. Worst one so far is the 1525 from Plymouth is cancelled, so passengers are to travel on the 1600 GWR service from Plymouth to Exeter St Davids, changing for the 1824 CrossCountry service from Exeter St Davids to Manchester Piccadilly. Passengers should change at Birmingham New Street for the 2156 CrossCountry service to Leeds. Upon arrival at Leeds, please board the 0042 TransPennine Express service to York arriving at 0108 instead of 2147, a mere 201 minutes late!!!! You'd think they'd at least hold the 2103 to Leeds at Birmingham if the train from Exeter is late!

Why they couldn't arrange acceptance via London I don't know as passengers would've arrived at 2255. Or maybe held the 1845 from Reading for 10 minutes for a 2246 arrival. Total lack of customer care from XC.

Puzzling. Why werent passengers for beyond Birmingham allowed to board the 1724 Exeter-Leeds? (Do you know that tney weren't?).
(In terms of holding connections - how many people travelling from Plymonth/Totnes/Newton A to York and beyond are we talking about?)
 

Carlisle

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XC gave up giving a monkey about passengers many years ago IMO !!!
With industrial action happening or expected shortly at EMT, XC, Merseyrail SWR Caledonian Sleeper, Heathrow Airport, British Airways, London Underground etc, there’s surely larger forces currently at play in the transport sector, not just a single mediocrely run TOC in disagreement with some of its staff
 
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LowLevel

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With industrial action happening or expected shortly at EMT, XC, Merseyrail SWR Caledonian Sleeper, Heathrow Airport, British Airways, London Underground etc, there’s surely larger forces currently at play in the transport sector, not just a single mediocrely run TOC in disagreement with some of its staff

You might think that but as a person in dispute currently at our TOC it affects one grade only regarding some specific issues. I don't believe I am part of any huge scheme and haven't seen any evidence of it.
 

Deafdoggie

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Speaking as someone who spent, literally, thousands of pounds a year on rail travel (my own trips, trips with the family, etc) but was affected by industrial action, I purchased a car & we virtually never travel by train now. We can’t be the only ones. I know not everyone has that choice, but I do wonder if ultimately these people are striking themselves out of a job.
 

EvoIV

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Or perhaps faced with an intransigent employer seemingly obsessed with squeezing out all terms and conditions you're faced with the situation where either way you lose. If you do nothing you lose as the company gets away with making the front line staff largely take the strain of improving the dividend to shareholders or you push back and say if you continue to do this we'll both lose as you may no longer have the patronage you once had and your now disenfranchised staff feel undervalued and unlikely to go the extra mile for you.

In my experience pay negotiation disputes are far more often about terms and conditions than they are about money. Of course companies and certain elements of the media like to frame the disputes as about money as this makes the public think the staff are being greedy for a few pennies more when in actuality they may be content to just get an inflationary rise without losing their existing terms and conditions of employment.

NB I have no connection to XC so make no comment on their dispute.
 

theironroad

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Speaking as someone who spent, literally, thousands of pounds a year on rail travel (my own trips, trips with the family, etc) but was affected by industrial action, I purchased a car & we virtually never travel by train now. We can’t be the only ones. I know not everyone has that choice, but I do wonder if ultimately these people are striking themselves out of a job.

I'm sure you are not be on!y one, but as rail ridership has risen significantly in the past decade, you are in a minority. The railways arent disappearing anytime soon.
 

class 9

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XC Train managers are NOT STRIKING, they are just not working any hours that are outside their contracted hours.
 

GoneSouth

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Speaking as someone who spent, literally, thousands of pounds a year on rail travel (my own trips, trips with the family, etc) but was affected by industrial action, I purchased a car & we virtually never travel by train now. We can’t be the only ones. I know not everyone has that choice, but I do wonder if ultimately these people are striking themselves out of a job.
Believe me, if I had that choice then I would also use a car. It’s now got to the stage where industrial action, overcrowding and poor service is forcing me to look at alternatives. Added to this, the cost difference between 4 adult XC fares and hiring a fixed fare private hire cab for long distance trips is actually not that much for some of the trips we make. This saddens me as I love our railways and I know there are many hard working, reliable people in the industry. I would hate to see a mass migration to roads but simple economics and convenience will always triumph.

I do however wholeheartedly support their right to air their grievances and stand up for their rights, otherwise we are taking a step backwards to Victorian employment practices and I’d like to think we’ve come a long way since those days!

Oh and just one last point, the XC staff are not actually striking, they are just working to the contract offered to them by their employer. It seems to me that the company management can not deliver the service as they have not hired enough people to cover the required shifts.
 
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Starmill

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I'm sure you are not be on!y one, but as rail ridership has risen significantly in the past decade, you are in a minority. The railways arent disappearing anytime soon.
Northern lost patronage in their most recent annual results... The decline was fairly minimal, only 2%, but that's against an optimistic growth target, and it is clearly linked to industrial action.

Did anyone travel on XC on Sunday?
 

theironroad

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Northern lost patronage in their most recent annual results... The decline was fairly minimal, only 2%, but that's against an optimistic growth target, and it is clearly linked to industrial action.

Did anyone travel on XC on Sunday?

Obviously actual IA when services are not available to travel on will have an effect on ridership levels and as there had been a lot of IA then I'm not surprised if it is reflected in the results.

However, the idea that the majority of people are going to give up in the railways and jump in their car all the time is unrealistic. just imagine how much worse road traffic congestion would get if all these people decided to drive their car into major urban centres?

Michael O' Leary of Ryanair fame has it about right when passengers have a bad experience and claim they will never ever fly with Ryanair again......until they see some nice cheap fares and want to go away somewhere then the 'never ever flying again' soon disappears for most people.
 

Deafdoggie

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Obviously not everyone is going to get a car. But everyone who does is a loss to the railway. No one is going to be attracted to use rail during a dispute, that’s a loss to rail. Yes, they’ll be lots of people left on the trains, but there could have been more
 

Starmill

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However, the idea that the majority of people are going to give up in the railways and jump in their car all the time is unrealistic. just imagine how much worse road traffic congestion would get if all these people decided to drive their car into major urban centres?
The majority of people in the UK use the railway either never or infrequently. This is boosted significantly by the numbers from the South East. The market share of the railway in places like Lancashire, Cumbria and Cheshire is tiny - almost totally insignificant.
 

matt

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Did anyone travel on XC on Sunday?

Yes, I travelled from Newton Abbot to Birmingham. Train has been strengthened so was a 9 car so plenty of seats at Newton Abbot but full by Bristol.
 

pt_mad

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Speaking as someone who spent, literally, thousands of pounds a year on rail travel (my own trips, trips with the family, etc) but was affected by industrial action, I purchased a car & we virtually never travel by train now. We can’t be the only ones. I know not everyone has that choice, but I do wonder if ultimately these people are striking themselves out of a job.
Realistically though a car is still not a viable alternative into London (non XC example), and many other cities. Or to Scotland from Southern England if it's anyone other than someone used to very long 6 or 7 hour drives. Or north of the Midlands to Cornwall.

The railway remain so busy because as much as a lot of people aren't satisfied and it can be a gamble to get a seat at times and there are some cancellations and disruption, it's still often better than the roads if you're travelling into any major city, or 200 miles or more, unless you're a very confident driver obviously. Add to that parking woes.

Believe me, if I had that choice then I would also use a car. It’s now got to the stage where industrial action, overcrowding and poor service is forcing me to look at alternatives. Added to this, the cost difference between 4 adult XC fares and hiring a fixed fare private hire cab for long distance trips is actually not that much for some of the trips we make. This saddens me as I love our railways and I know there are many hard working, reliable people in the industry. I would hate to see a mass migration to roads but simple economics and convenience will always triumph.

I do however wholeheartedly support their right to air their grievances and stand up for their rights, otherwise we are taking a step backwards to Victorian employment practices and I’d like to think we’ve come a long way since those days!

Oh and just one last point, the XC staff are not actually striking, they are just working to the contract offered to them by their employer. It seems to me that the company management can not deliver the service as they have not hired enough people to cover the required shifts.
I don't think simple economics will triumph in this case though,because the car is often cheaper anyway for a group. It's the other factors which play a bigger part, i.e. the roads are so stressful, so congested, fast paced and require intense concentration for many hours, there is equal chance of unplanned delays on the motorways, the car can be uncomfortable in the heat, you can't do anything leisure or work while you drive, or eat while driving, etc etc. Edit: forgot to add a lot of people like to have a drink too which obviously you can't if you're driving and is not advisable for car passengers either.

Well pointed out re right to stand up for rights to avoid Victorian conditions of old from returning. On a wider note, I often wonder how much worse the working conditions would be on a general UK non railway level if it weren't for the remaining unionised industries still managing to just about stop terms deteriorating in the way so many other job conditions have over the last 15 years.
 
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221129

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Further dates announced for an overtime ban from 2359 on Thursday 22nd August until 2359 on Tuesday 27th August...
 

Starmill

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Sunday will be the worst effected however they have been short every day of the last one so far with cancellations.
Thank you for the updates.

Is the current industrial action expected to continue over this Sunday (11 August) please?
 

GoneSouth

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Further dates announced for an overtime ban from 2359 on Thursday 22nd August until 2359 on Tuesday 27th August...
Has anything been published about this by XC yet? I’ve been checking as I intended to use their trains that weekend but nothing on XC website when I checked earlier.

Thanks for the help.
 
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