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Unnecessarily long bus routes in the UK

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Statto

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It didn't go a particularly roundabout route. A scenic journey. Keeps getting shortened, though.

I think the last through northbound journey was around 1.30pm[maybe a bit earlier], which gave you 50 minutes in Nottingham, coming off the first through southbound.

Transpeak has had a few different numbers over the years, was 252 after d-reg, i remember mid 90s it was renumbered to R1, then became TP, October 1986 Peak District has been put up by another site.
https://transpirebus.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pdtt-oct-1986.pdf
 
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Deerfold

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I think the last through northbound journey was around 1.30pm[maybe a bit earlier], which gave you 50 minutes in Nottingham, coming off the first through southbound.

Transpeak has had a few different numbers over the years, was 252 after d-reg, i remember mid 90s it was renumbered to R1, then became TP, October 1986 Peak District has been put up by another site.
https://transpirebus.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/pdtt-oct-1986.pdf

The level of service I remember in the early 90s on the R1/TP was about that in the booklet you posted, but with a service midway between those just between Nottingham and Derby - this split into the ever-declining TP and the R1 which became the rather successful Red Arrow (after I'd moved away). I think the 0910 and 2115 from Manchester (and corresponding journeys in the other direction) only ran Saturdays and July/August.

When I had a spare day to visit family and friends when I was a student, I'd get a ZigZag and catch various buses through the Peak district (except for Bakewell to Matlock, services were always at least hourly). I'd usually get bored around Stockport and get trains to Littleborough (which cost 20p more than from Manchester and included the tram link to Victoria). Then an hour's walk to the county boundary and a bus to my parents.

I used to do that around 4 times a year, but never in the opposite direction (too tricky to make sure I didn't just miss a bus and have 2 hours to wait).
 

Statto

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The level of service I remember in the early 90s on the R1/TP was about that in the booklet you posted, but with a service midway between those just between Nottingham and Derby - this split into the ever-declining TP and the R1 which became the rather successful Red Arrow (after I'd moved away). I think the 0910 and 2115 from Manchester (and corresponding journeys in the other direction) only ran Saturdays and July/August.

When I had a spare day to visit family and friends when I was a student, I'd get a ZigZag and catch various buses through the Peak district (except for Bakewell to Matlock, services were always at least hourly). I'd usually get bored around Stockport and get trains to Littleborough (which cost 20p more than from Manchester and included the tram link to Victoria). Then an hour's walk to the county boundary and a bus to my parents.

I used to do that around 4 times a year, but never in the opposite direction (too tricky to make sure I didn't just miss a bus and have 2 hours to wait).

It's interesting looking at that timetable the 252 now TP went to Victoria bus station in Nottingham, before being diverted from a later date to the Broadmarsh bus station.
 

route101

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Used to be Trent Barton Transpeak Manchester Chortlon Street Bus Station to Nottingham Broadmarsh Bus Station via Stockport, Hazel Grove, Buxton, Bakewell, Belper and Derby. Think it took nearly 4 hours but a bargain for £7.

Used the service from Derby to Buxton then connecting to the airport bus .
 

route101

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I don't think you quite understand the service. The 10 isn't aimed for Aberdeen - Inverness passengers. It's aimed at intermediate passengers. This is the reason why it can't be split and works as it is. It's much like the First Scotland East 38 where there's very few end to end passengers but it's the intermediate points that count.

Some popular journeys on the 10 for example...
  • Aberdeen - Huntly
  • Aberdeen Royal Infirmary - Inverurie
  • Aberdeen Royal Infirmary - Huntly
  • Inverurie - Elgin
  • Huntly - Nairn
  • Keith - Inverness
  • Fochabers - Inverness
  • Elgin - Nairn
  • Elgin - Inverness

The only place you could really split the 10 (for operational reason) is in Elgin, that would still be a total disaster. You would loose the Huntly/Keith/Fochabers - Forress/Nairn/Inverness passenger base. Yes the train may cover these links, but in many cases the train would also require walking significantly further and/or require a connection on to a infrequent local bus. It is for this reason that the 10 is often the preferred option and works as it is. The 10 is much like the 35 in that regard. There's very few end to end passengers, but the intermediate points and links provided are what justify such a long service.

Used the service last month , Aberdeen to ELgin and took 35 back to Aberdeen. Did the 35 not start back at Inverness until recently .

Noticed on the 10 timetable you can book megabus tickets on it
 

Jordan Adam

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Used the service last month , Aberdeen to ELgin and took 35 back to Aberdeen. Did the 35 not start back at Inverness until recently .

Noticed on the 10 timetable you can book megabus tickets on it

Yes from around 2006 to 2013 the 35 operated Aberdeeen to Inverness, There was also a 315 operating Buckie to Inverness.

The ability to book Megabus tickets for the 10 first came to fruition in 2011 along with the launch of the SV11 plate Plaxton Panther's
 

Statto

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A lot of those North East Scotland routes are monsters, even Aberdeen-Braemar is over 2 hours end to end, but most of the routes link up small communities that otherwise wouldn't be served, & has been said it's more economical to have one route from one depot, than having a few shorter routes.
 

PaulMc7

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A lot of those North East Scotland routes are monsters, even Aberdeen-Braemar is over 2 hours end to end, but most of the routes link up small communities that otherwise wouldn't be served, & has been said it's more economical to have one route from one depot, than having a few shorter routes.

Yeah I've definitely learned that the further north in Scotland you go the routes grow in size and mileage. Yeah would make sense for allocating buses and drivers too if it's all one depot
 

Jordan Adam

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A lot of those North East Scotland routes are monsters, even Aberdeen-Braemar is over 2 hours end to end, but most of the routes link up small communities that otherwise wouldn't be served, & has been said it's more economical to have one route from one depot, than having a few shorter routes.

Indeed, the reason many of the routes are longer and not split up is for operational reasons. Doesn't make sense to split them up as many of the passengers are going to Aberdeen.

The only "unnecessarily long" route would be the 747 (Montrose - Stonehaven - Aberdeen Airport - Ellon - Peterhead). The Peterhead runs in particular are over 3 hours long and operated by Enviro300's with the majority of the route being on rather intense roads! Realistically this route should be split at the Stonehaven and Aberdeen Airport in to 3 different services. With Coaches on the Stonehaven - Airport & Airport - Ellon/Peterhead legs and mini buses on the Montrose - Stonehaven leg. It's not uncommon to see Aberdeen based E350H's on the 747 now, these only having a top speed of 45MPH!
 

Jordan Adam

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On the topic of Stagecoach North Scotland's (Bluebird Buses Ltd) Service 35. The pre-2013 service to Inverness was unnecessarily long. There was no need at all for the service to go beyond Elgin. This service wasn't split either, it was the same vehicle all the way through changing drivers at Macduff and/or Elgin.

The 6:45 & 7:45 from Aberdeen were almost 6 hours long!

jl9k68S.png


I think i win... :lol:
 

PaulMc7

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On the topic of Stagecoach North Scotland's (Bluebird Buses Ltd) Service 35. The pre-2013 service to Inverness was unnecessarily long. There was no need at all for the service to go beyond Elgin. This service wasn't split either, it was the same vehicle all the way through changing drivers at Macduff and/or Elgin.

The 6:45 & 7:45 from Aberdeen were almost 6 hours long!

jl9k68S.png

Would definitely earn your wage driving that
 

Megafuss

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On the topic of Stagecoach North Scotland's (Bluebird Buses Ltd) Service 35. The pre-2013 service to Inverness was unnecessarily long. There was no need at all for the service to go beyond Elgin. This service wasn't split either, it was the same vehicle all the way through changing drivers at Macduff and/or Elgin.

The 6:45 & 7:45 from Aberdeen were almost 6 hours long!

jl9k68S.png


I think i win... :lol:

I've ridden the current route by taking a break a break at Banff (nice place by the way). I would genuinely struggle to stay on the old route without getting off at Elgin as well.
 

Statto

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On the topic of Stagecoach North Scotland's (Bluebird Buses Ltd) Service 35. The pre-2013 service to Inverness was unnecessarily long. There was no need at all for the service to go beyond Elgin. This service wasn't split either, it was the same vehicle all the way through changing drivers at Macduff and/or Elgin.

The 6:45 & 7:45 from Aberdeen were almost 6 hours long!

jl9k68S.png


I think i win... :lol:


I love that to make the first return journey from Inverness, the first bus to Inverness was 4.32am from Macduff, i wonder what the passenger loadings were like until Elgin:E mind you the first journey on the 10 is 4.48am from Elgin to Inverness :E
 

SCH117X

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The 843 From Leeds to Scarborough is daft why does it have to go via Seacroft green and Seamer?.
In a simple word, custom. Seacroft Green hardly adds any distance to the route paralleling that which otherwise be taken, similarly the diversion through Stockton on the Forest to the east of York being just slightly more noticeable distance wise. Regarding Seamer that is on the main road to Scarborough as it was before the bypass was built and surely it is pretty unusual for a service bus to divert along a bypass depriving a village of its service. The one really indirect element of the Coastliner services is the loop around the Woodlands Estate at Tadcaster. The 840 to Whitby got mentioned earlier in the thread to which the above comments also apply and also since its conversion to double deckers there is also the dead end section en route to serve Goathland due to the low bridge on the through route through that village. Overall the services may be long but in the majority not unnecessarily and during summer there are the express workings avoiding Tadcaster, Stockton on the Forest and Malton as well as Seamer (X43) and Thornton-le-Dale, Goathland and Ruswarp (X40)
 

Jordan Adam

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I've ridden the current route by taking a break a break at Banff (nice place by the way). I would genuinely struggle to stay on the old route without getting off at Elgin as well.

It used to be quite a common "must do" for enthusiasts, especially back when it had the rather musical Plaxton Profiles! Although the lack of toilet wouldn't have been pleasant!

I love that to make the first return journey from Inverness, the first bus to Inverness was 4.32am from Macduff, i wonder what the passenger loadings were like until Elgin:E mind you the first journey on the 10 is 4.48am from Elgin to Inverness :E

Indeed. I'm sure if they done some adjustments that early 35 run could've been Elgin operated instead. Under the May 2014 timetables there was a 10 that departed Elgin for Aberdeen at 4:25! This was however back when the 10 operated half hourly between Aberdeen and Inverurie.

Currently however the 747 must be the worst for early starts. The first run from Peterhead departs at 3:49! Even from Stonehaven there's a 4:13 run arriving at Ellon for 5:30. Here's a link to the 727/747/757 timetable if you want a further browse, a rather insane network at the moment, although changes in two weeks time will see the 747 reduced and 757 axed.
 

Statto

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It used to be quite a common "must do" for enthusiasts, especially back when it had the rather musical Plaxton Profiles! Although the lack of toilet wouldn't have been pleasant!



Indeed. I'm sure if they done some adjustments that early 35 run could've been Elgin operated instead. Under the May 2014 timetables there was a 10 that departed Elgin for Aberdeen at 4:25! This was however back when the 10 operated half hourly between Aberdeen and Inverurie.

Currently however the 747 must be the worst for early starts. The first run from Peterhead departs at 3:49! Even from Stonehaven there's a 4:13 run arriving at Ellon for 5:30. Here's a link to the 727/747/757 timetable if you want a further browse, a rather insane network at the moment, although changes in two weeks time will see the 747 reduced and 757 axed.


Could those early morning journeys on the 747 be timed for those who want to make early morning flights at Aberdeen Airport. The new 747 timetable, first journey is now 3.38am, most journeys are now Ellon-Stonehaven
https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s...erdeen Airport Travel Guide August 19 Web.pdf
 

Jordan Adam

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Could those early morning journeys on the 747 be timed for those who want to make early morning flights at Aberdeen Airport. The new 747 timetable, first journey is now 3.38am, most journeys are now Ellon-Stonehaven
https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/North Scotland/Bluebird/TTAberdeen Airport Travel Guide August 19 Web.pdf

Yes, they're simply to allow for connections to early flights. Although that first run is often operated by a Sprinter as on the return leg it becomes the 61A at Hatton. The main passenger base for the 747 however is with commuters to the Airport and Kirkhill Industrial Estate, with very few Airport passengers. I am at no doubt that Stagecoach have made huge losses this year due to it.

Cutting the Montrose - Stonehaven portion is odd to me as this is the busiest section of route.
 

Statto

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Yes, they're simply to allow for connections to early flights. Although that first run is often operated by a Sprinter as on the return leg it becomes the 61A at Hatton. The main passenger base for the 747 however is with commuters to the Airport and Kirkhill Industrial Estate, with very few Airport passengers. I am at no doubt that Stagecoach have made huge losses this year due to it.

Cutting the Montrose - Stonehaven portion is odd to me as this is the busiest section of route.


Doesn't the 7/X7 cover Montrose-Stonehaven section?
 

Jordan Adam

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Doesn't the 7/X7 cover Montrose-Stonehaven section?

The X7 does, however the 747 serves the coastal villages that the X7 can't get to. Previously this was served by the 107 which the 747 replaced. Imo the 747 should've just terminated at Stonehaven with the 107 kept in place.
 

route101

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I've ridden the current route by taking a break a break at Banff (nice place by the way). I would genuinely struggle to stay on the old route without getting off at Elgin as well.

Done the whole route Elgin to Aberdeen 35 on E400MMC last month . Done it to see bit of Scotland ive not seen.
 

AlbertBeale

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The LT routes which went from the suburbs of London, through the centre, and out the other side, were a staple of my childhood, when my father would take me out on exciting daytrips. (Like the 30, I think it was, which ran along the South Circular in Putney where we lived (starting from Roehampton?) across the centre and off to Hackney Wick. An exciting couple of hours each way for a 5-year-old! I certainly didn't see them as unnecessarily long...

In later school days, I used the 140 from home to school, and it then ran from something like Mill Hill (at one stage, even from Watford) to Heathrow (via South Harrow and Northolt, which was what mattered to me!). The bus conductors always claimed that it was the longest LT route in that era.

When LT buses were franchised out, in the Thatcher era, the practice of long routes fed by garages at each end stopped - because, I was told, the garages might be run by different companies, who couldn't be expected to "share" a route; so they were all cut in half.
 

bobslack1982

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The X43 (I think it is) from Skipton to Manchester. Transdev took over Pennine’s old services and their service ran from Skipton to Burnley - so Transdev simply extended their Witch Way service. Takes a good couple of hours end to end.

There used to be a 500/X75 from Carlisle to Stranraer too which didn’t make much sense.

Then there’s the Edinburgh-Dumfries service Stagecoach operate. Normally using an E300.
 

NorthOxonian

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The X43 (I think it is) from Skipton to Manchester. Transdev took over Pennine’s old services and their service ran from Skipton to Burnley - so Transdev simply extended their Witch Way service. Takes a good couple of hours end to end.

Doesn't it extend even further, up to Grassington? I can't work out exactly when it does so, but that would make the route even longer.
 

Ken H

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In a simple word, custom. Seacroft Green hardly adds any distance to the route paralleling that which otherwise be taken, similarly the diversion through Stockton on the Forest to the east of York being just slightly more noticeable distance wise. Regarding Seamer that is on the main road to Scarborough as it was before the bypass was built and surely it is pretty unusual for a service bus to divert along a bypass depriving a village of its service. The one really indirect element of the Coastliner services is the loop around the Woodlands Estate at Tadcaster. The 840 to Whitby got mentioned earlier in the thread to which the above comments also apply and also since its conversion to double deckers there is also the dead end section en route to serve Goathland due to the low bridge on the through route through that village. Overall the services may be long but in the majority not unnecessarily and during summer there are the express workings avoiding Tadcaster, Stockton on the Forest and Malton as well as Seamer (X43) and Thornton-le-Dale, Goathland and Ruswarp (X40)
When it West Yorkshire Road Car, they always went via Seacroft Green - a bit of road that was never served by Leeds City Transport.
 

Ken H

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Doesn't it extend even further, up to Grassington? I can't work out exactly when it does so, but that would make the route even longer.
There has always been a Skipton Manchester service, even back in Ribble days. Pennine used to run a Barnoldwick service as the Ribbles didnt go there.

Transdev stopped the Sunday Grassington extensions when Keighley bus took over the Skipton-Grassington from Pride of the Dales. Now Skipton-Grassington Sundays are Keighley Bus, using their route specific liveried single decker.
doubt many made the trip from Manc to Grassington!
 

Ken H

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Another long bus is the 580-581-582 Skipton-Lancaster

its 50 miles - 2hr 25mn
 

route101

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The X43 (I think it is) from Skipton to Manchester. Transdev took over Pennine’s old services and their service ran from Skipton to Burnley - so Transdev simply extended their Witch Way service. Takes a good couple of hours end to end.

There used to be a 500/X75 from Carlisle to Stranraer too which didn’t make much sense.

Then there’s the Edinburgh-Dumfries service Stagecoach operate. Normally using an E300.

When it was first operated by Stagecoach , coaches were sometimes used on the Edinburgh to Dummfries . Do get people going all the way . Always thought it could be a citylink route
 

Deerfold

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The X43 (I think it is) from Skipton to Manchester. Transdev took over Pennine’s old services and their service ran from Skipton to Burnley - so Transdev simply extended their Witch Way service. Takes a good couple of hours end to end.

Transdev did not take over Pennine services. Some simply did not continue, some were replaced by less frequent services operated by NYCC.

Before Pennine closed down, Transdev competed with them Burnley - Skipton. Some parts of the route had 6 buses an hour. After Pennine closed down, Transdev reduced their frequency, then shortened the Burnley - Skipton service and extended the Witch Way. I've caught it a few times, connecting on the 66 from Keighley. I'd rather like them to re-extend the X43 to Keighley too.

There has always been a Skipton Manchester service, even back in Ribble days. Pennine used to run a Barnoldwick service as the Ribbles didnt go there.

Transdev stopped the Sunday Grassington extensions when Keighley bus took over the Skipton-Grassington from Pride of the Dales. Now Skipton-Grassington Sundays are Keighley Bus, using their route specific liveried single decker.
doubt many made the trip from Manc to Grassington!

Prior to the Witch Way running to Grassington, they ran the Skipton - Grassington service as 872, running 1 journey in service to/from Burnley. Before that it was a Sunday-only extension to the 66(A) from Keighley.

The Witch Way, 72 and 66 all connect in Skipton on a Sunday.
 

Deerfold

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Going to do the x43 from Skipton one day , nice run i take it ?

The Yorkshire bit is pretty. Good value for getting to Manchester from Yorkshire (though about 3 hours from me, about twice as long as the train). For a day return it's about a third of the price (+ I don't have to pay extra to get to the station).
 
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