Northern Unit Refurbishments

superkev · 3 Aug 2019

Harvey B said:
thats an average of 10 a month and If my guess is right then im assuming that there will probably have to be 3 units left to do in the new year

Needing PRM mods as of 3rd Aug I make it 12×150/1; 12×150/2; 14×156; 15×158 plus 16 323s.
Not included 10 in works.
K

RailUK Forums

Harvey B · 3 Aug 2019

Killingworth said:
A total of less than 10 units away to be completed in January would seem to be an acceptable result if they are fully completed . However won't many of the units still require to be away for various details to be finished off to be in the "as good as new" condition we were told would happen?

I don't see any chance of refurbishments being completed by the end of the year as PRM mods are the priority at the moment. So units are still going to have to be away in 2020 while they complete it. I think the best time-frame to see the refurbishments complete is probably late 2020 (that's just my guess). I'm guessing the reason that Pacers (mainly the 144s) are being kept into 2020 is to make sure that Northern have enough trains to cover for the ones currently in refurbishment.

Brian Aylott · 3 Aug 2019

superkev said:
507021s excellent Northen fleet blog has just been updated (thanks).
See https://merseyrailpep507.blogspot.com/.
I make it 53 dmus left to do PRM mods. Not long now.
Anyone confirm the numbers of the units moving too and from works today?
Thanks
K

Is it excellent - ie accurate?
I ask because the depot allocations are far from accurate - e.g. NL now has an allocation of 10 150s, have lost more 158s and there have been wrong allocations in other classes for some time
Brian

Harvey B · 3 Aug 2019

superkev said:
Needing PRM mods as of 3rd Aug I make it 10×150/1; 12×150/2; 14×156; 15×158 plus 16 323s.
Not included 10 in works.
K

I make that 67 units 10 + 12 + 14 + 15 takes us to 51 (If we're not counting the 323s) and 68 if we are counting them so assuming it is that's an average of 13.6 units a month which rounded up would make an average of about 14 a month and potentially some of those might get the refurbs too while they're in for PRM mods but I think Northern will not want to waste time having any unmodded units in for refurbishment at the same time so I doubt they'll want all their units away for both

superkev · 4 Aug 2019

Brian Aylott said:
Is it excellent - ie accurate?
I ask because the depot allocations are far from accurate - e.g. NL now has an allocation of 10 150s, have lost more 158s and there have been wrong allocations in other classes for some time
Brian

Best list I know of so all credit to 507021 for kindly sharing the info with us.
Perhaps the 150 and 158 allocations are temporary pending introduction of the 195s.
K

Xenophon PCDGS · 4 Aug 2019

What units normally operate on the Southport to Blackburn service, via Burnley Manchester Road?

Mathew S · 4 Aug 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
What units normally operate on the Southport to Blackburn service, via Burnley Manchester Road?

142s, 150s, and 156s. Usually two units, but sometimes one. Often two units of different classes. Only thing for certain is it won't be a 153 as they don't fit through Wigan Wallgate station.

jonesy3001 · 4 Aug 2019

first 323 going for refurb today;

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O28125/2019/08/04/advanced?fbclid=IwAR2Poqi0Pw-5JmU5GsEHCPZcc33whUvCdsHYnwy1iWgKGuJr18WCNCpy-zk&h=AT0AaWzJxzF5VnKO06FyWeN7M8LvJWKSyIHVTMkarT-Ko3_ftXG4SA4RamyOWCTzsM0iAFeAX3oyMRznUz-XCCZVg0nQNTYH7uYI-HEw9D-wHyS5VTgMTaYGQNIO9rIP

northernchris · 4 Aug 2019

Brian Aylott said:
Is it excellent - ie accurate?
I ask because the depot allocations are far from accurate - e.g. NL now has an allocation of 10 150s, have lost more 158s and there have been wrong allocations in other classes for some time
Brian

Are you aware which 150s Neville Hill now have?

jonesy3001 · 4 Aug 2019

all 150s are based at newton heath, don't you mean 156s?

Harvey B · 4 Aug 2019

jonesy3001 said:
all 150s are based at newton heath, don't you mean 156s?

Only reason I can think of 150s being stored at NL is overnight storage if they can't make it back to Newton Heath or Heaton

northernchris · 4 Aug 2019

Harvey B said:
Only reason I can think of 150s being stored at NL is overnight storage if they can't make it back to Newton Heath or Heaton

150s do go to Neville Hill for fuelling and stabling, and for repair should they fail, however I wasn't aware of any of the fleet now being based there

Harvey B · 4 Aug 2019

northernchris said:
150s do go to Neville Hill for fuelling and stabling, and for repair should they fail, however I wasn't aware of any of the fleet now being based there

Me neither, I think it has an allocation of 10 150s for that reason and probably they are any 10 150s that have probably been in the Leeds area that day and can't make it back to manchester for whatever reason (In short theres not a fixed allocation of 150s at that depot). My question is what does it mean for a train to be based at a particular depot (I.E the 150s are based at Newton Heath and the 333s are based at Neville hill)

59CosG95 · 4 Aug 2019

Harvey B said:
Me neither, I think it has an allocation of 10 150s for that reason and probably they are any 10 150s that have probably been in the Leeds area that day and can't make it back to manchester for whatever reason (In short theres not a fixed allocation of 150s at that depot). My question is what does it mean for a train to be based at a particular depot (I.E the 150s are based at Newton Heath and the 333s are based at Neville hill)

That tends to be their allocated depot for heavy maintenance & exams. When a full overhaul is needed, then works such as Loughborough, Holbeck, Doncaster, Crewe etc. come into play.

Harvey B · 4 Aug 2019

59CosG95 said:
That tends to be their allocated depot for heavy maintenance & exams. When a full overhaul is needed, then works such as Loughborough, Holbeck, Doncaster, Crewe etc. come into play.

Thanks very much

superkev · 5 Aug 2019

59CosG95 said:
That tends to be their allocated depot for heavy maintenance & exams. When a full overhaul is needed, then works such as Loughborough, Holbeck, Doncaster, Crewe etc. come into play.

Northerns depot allocation policy seems to have changed.
Often the home depot was responsible for all units of a particular class even though it may be out at another depot who did just day to day maintenance.
Examples where Newton Heathes 150s and 156s and Neville hills 158s which popped up allover.
Recently things seem to have changed with some 158s allocated to Heaton and some 150s reported at Neville hill.
The new 331/1s where reported as allocated to Allerton even though they were for use at Leeds but they now seem to be at NL for at least day to day maintenance. All a bit of a puzzle.
K
P.s. anyone confirm the 150 156 158 units recently rumoured reallocated to Heaton and Neville Hill.

Harvey B · 5 Aug 2019

superkev said:
Northerns depot allocation policy seems to have changed.
Often the home depot was responsible for all units of a particular class even though it may be out at another depot who did just day to day maintenance.
Examples where Newton Heathes 150s and 156s and Neville hills 158s which popped up allover.
Recently things seem to have changed with some 158s allocated to Heaton and some 150s reported at Neville hill.
The new 331/1s where reported as allocated to Allerton even though they were for use at Leeds but they now seem to be at NL for at least day to day maintenance. All a bit of a puzzle.
K
P.s. anyone confirm the 150 156 158 units recently rumoured reallocated to Heaton and Neville Hill.

the reallocated trains are probably not there as Fixed allocations meaning it is different everyday

Geeves · 5 Aug 2019

With the 144s on cusp of being chopped it would make sense that some of the recently acquired 150s would fill their places though I've not heard anything official. Newton Heath is very full at weekends now with stock out-stabled as far away as Southport.

Also wasn't it said that all the Perkins engined 158/8s? are now allocated to Heaton? Pretty sure that is a done deal.

59CosG95 · 5 Aug 2019

jonesy3001 said:
first 323 going for refurb today;

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O28125/2019/08/04/advanced?fbclid=IwAR2Poqi0Pw-5JmU5GsEHCPZcc33whUvCdsHYnwy1iWgKGuJr18WCNCpy-zk&h=AT0AaWzJxzF5VnKO06FyWeN7M8LvJWKSyIHVTMkarT-Ko3_ftXG4SA4RamyOWCTzsM0iAFeAX3oyMRznUz-XCCZVg0nQNTYH7uYI-HEw9D-wHyS5VTgMTaYGQNIO9rIP

323234 is the unit in question.

Brian Aylott · 5 Aug 2019

jonesy3001 said:
all 150s are based at newton heath, don't you mean 156s?

No
Brian

Brian Aylott · 5 Aug 2019

northernchris said:
Are you aware which 150s Neville Hill now have?

You will have to wait until reliable mags are out!
Brian

Brian Aylott · 5 Aug 2019

Harvey B said:
Only reason I can think of 150s being stored at NL is overnight storage if they can't make it back to Newton Heath or Heaton

You'll have to think more
Brian

Brian Aylott · 5 Aug 2019

northernchris said:
150s do go to Neville Hill for fuelling and stabling, and for repair should they fail, however I wasn't aware of any of the fleet now being based there

Well you are now
Brian

Harvey B · 5 Aug 2019

Brian Aylott said:
You'll have to think more
Brian

Any sort of reliable source that there are some 150s permanently based at NL? I'm sure that @507021 's list is accurate and IA'm also sure he has internal sources from Northern providing him with information of where units are based and whether they're in refurbishment or not.

Brian Aylott · 5 Aug 2019

Harvey B said:
Any sort of reliable source that there are some 150s permanently based at NL? I'm sure that @507021 's list is accurate and IA'm also sure he has internal sources from Northern providing him with information of where units are based and whether they're in refurbishment or not.

Would you accept Northern Rail. as being reliable source for depot allocations?
How can you be sure that 507021 always has accurate info and has reliable internal sources?
Brian

Harvey B · 5 Aug 2019

Brian Aylott said:
Would you accept Northern Rail. as being reliable source for depot allocations?
How can you be sure that 507021 always has accurate info and has reliable internal sources?
Brian

If you work for Northern then I would accept it, otherwise I can't trust you.
Regarding @507021, thats just my guess that he has internal sources.

superkev · 5 Aug 2019

Harvey B said:
If you work for Northern then I would accept it, otheewise I can't trust you.
Regarding @507021, thats just my guess that he has internal sources.

Unless we have a better source of Northern fleet info than 507021s lets enjoy what we have.
K

61653 HTAFC · 5 Aug 2019

Geeves said:
With the 144s on cusp of being chopped it would make sense that some of the recently acquired 150s would fill their places though I've not heard anything official. Newton Heath is very full at weekends now with stock out-stabled as far away as Southport.

Also wasn't it said that all the Perkins engined 158/8s? are now allocated to Heaton? Pretty sure that is a done deal.

144s are rumoured (it may be more than rumour) to be staying for the time being, with dispensation for use beyond 31/12/19 apparently being sought.

Harvey B · 5 Aug 2019

superkev said:
Do you have a better source? Enjoy what we have.
K

Not meaning to be rude or anything but a better source for what?

Brian Aylott · 5 Aug 2019

Harvey B said:
If you work for Northern then I would accept it, otheewise I can't trust you.
Regarding @507021, thats just my guess that he has internal sources.

If I told you that I'm a cleaner at my local Northern station would you then accept my genuine information!?
Perhaps you will change your mind about what I've stated when the facts appear in reliable magazines
I am not a liar
Brian

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