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ScotRail HST catering

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kkong

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Thanks - the cheapest non-railcard Advanced 1st Class Ticket I can find between Edinburgh and Inverness is £45 on Scotrail on the dates I want to go - do they get any cheaper than that ?

You can upgrade to 1st class on IC7 services for £15 one-way on weekdays and £10 on weekends.

However it's not clear if it's possible to upgrade Standard class advance tickets.

The ScotRail site doesn't mention an exclusion, but that's not to say it doesn't exist.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/tickets/first-class
 
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hexagon789

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Thanks - the cheapest non-railcard Advanced 1st Class Ticket I can find between Edinburgh and Inverness is £45 on Scotrail on the dates I want to go - do they get any cheaper than that ?

Conversely LNER have £30 tickets (two weeks before as they have not released my dates yet) direct from Falkirk Grahamston on The Chieftain. Throw in a few free scotches, better free grub and I'm afraid it's a no-brainer.

Not sure if they get any cheaper, that's one for the fares experts, but the on-train upgrade is £15 iirc.
 

paul1609

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Well, Cumbernauld is fairly local ;):lol:
I recently walked past Cumbernauld on my Lands End to John o' Groats walk using the Forth and Clyde Canal, I was surprised at how rural and pleasant it was, the only indication that I was close to civilisation was groups of male teenagers (who themselves were civil enough) consuming multiple bottles of Buckfast on the towpath. ;)
 

47271

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I recently walked past Cumbernauld on my Lands End to John o' Groats walk using the Forth and Clyde Canal, I was surprised at how rural and pleasant it was, the only indication that I was close to civilisation was groups of male teenagers (who themselves were civil enough) consuming multiple bottles of Buckfast on the towpath. ;)
Maybe they should sell Buckfast from the buffets.

It might not be locally sourced, but it's a Scottish cultural icon as strong as Irn Bru. I went into my local shop a couple of weeks ago looking for Pimms ahead of a barbeque for a few people on a warm day. No Pimms, but I could've had chilled Bucky to keep the guests entertained. Welcome to Scotland.
 

paul1609

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Maybe they should sell Buckfast from the buffets.

It might not be locally sourced, but it's a Scottish cultural icon as strong as Irn Bru. I went into my local shop a couple of weeks ago looking for Pimms ahead of a barbeque for a few people on a warm day. No Pimms, but I could've had chilled Bucky to keep the guests entertained. Welcome to Scotland.
Presumably Navid knows his market? ;)
 

RLBH

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You can, because companies have to plan total staff cost, not just a sum of wages.
What something costs, and what it is worth, are two very different numbers. Occasionally they happen to be the same. The costs of providing on-train catering are easily defined. The profitability of the catering is easily identified. But the actual value of having it also includes its' effect on the farebox, and this is difficult to quantify.

It may be that having catering makes rail travel a more attractive prospect, resulting in enough extra passengers to cover the losses of the catering. Or it may be that the catering takes up space that could be used for more passengers, compounding the losses. The longer the distance, the more likely a service is to be in the first category; the shorter the distance, the more likely the second. But it's also affected by a great many other things.
 

hwl

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What something costs, and what it is worth, are two very different numbers. Occasionally they happen to be the same. The costs of providing on-train catering are easily defined. The profitability of the catering is easily identified. But the actual value of having it also includes its' effect on the farebox, and this is difficult to quantify.

It may be that having catering makes rail travel a more attractive prospect, resulting in enough extra passengers to cover the losses of the catering. Or it may be that the catering takes up space that could be used for more passengers, compounding the losses. The longer the distance, the more likely a service is to be in the first category; the shorter the distance, the more likely the second. But it's also affected by a great many other things.

I suspect if electrification proceeded to plan then this thread wouldn't exist as Bristol (both ways), Oxford and Swansea would be served by electric only IEPs with minimal catering allowing the Bi-modes which would be more dedicated to longer distance services to have different catering options. The problem is now that the fleet is entirely interchangeable.
 

HORNIMANS

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Scotrail trolley service advertised in time table, but not available on the train. Is this legal?
 

route:oxford

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Scotrail trolley service advertised in time table, but not available on the train. Is this legal?

Perfectly legal under Scot's law.

If I was in First Class, I would expect similar customer service to a flight though and be presented with a, say £25 Visa gift card to purchase suitable refreshments before boarding though - just as you would if your airline were aware that catering wasn't going to be loaded.
 

MrEd

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Scotrail trolley service advertised in time table, but not available on the train. Is this legal?

Every day there will be trains running in all corners of the national network with the advertised catering curtailed or unavailable, due to service disruption meaning attendants are displaced/out of hours, staff shortages, stock shortages, equipment failures, defects with buffet cars meaning that the buffet has no power or needs to be removed from the formation, etc. This issue is hardly unique to Scotrail, but affects other TOCs (Caledonian Sleeper and Greater Anglia, to name just two prominent examples last week) to the same extent. At the end of the day, catering is not essential to the safe running of the train, it is merely a ‘nice to have’ extra; the TOC will cover itself by including the disclaimer ‘all on-train catering is subject to availability’ or words to that effect in its timetables/promotional material. Obviously the continued failure to provide the advertised catering may constitute poor publicity for the TOC (see the Caledonian Sleeper thread), but it does not affect the safe nor the punctual running of the train; it can hardly be termed ‘illegal’ in any sense.
 

pgfb1306

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You can upgrade to 1st class on IC7 services for £15 one-way on weekdays and £10 on weekends.

However it's not clear if it's possible to upgrade Standard class advance tickets.

The ScotRail site doesn't mention an exclusion, but that's not to say it doesn't exist.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/tickets/first-class

Can confirm from the Twitter team that standard advances are not upgradeable. Shame considering how low they go and how quiet 1st class can be on the Hosts
 

hexagon789

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Can confirm from the Twitter team that standard advances are not upgradeable. Shame considering how low they go and how quiet 1st class can be on the Hosts

I think that's fairly standard though, do any TOCs allow upgrades to first on std advances?
 

Butts

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Can confirm from the Twitter team that standard advances are not upgradeable. Shame considering how low they go and how quiet 1st class can be on the Hosts

I believe the only Advance that cant be upgraded is the £5 lowest one, all the others can according to the Scotrail Website.
 

pgfb1306

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I believe the only Advance that cant be upgraded is the £5 lowest one, all the others can according to the Scotrail Website.
Where on the website? All I could see was suitably ambiguous wording which was why I checked with the Twitter team who said none were upgradeable using the upgrade route.
 

HORNIMANS

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If it is advertised then it should be provided. If you cant provide catering dont advertise it.
The train I was on 1316 Perth to Inverness at the begining of July, the conductor said I could claim compensation for it.
And he did seem knowledgeable and I think new washe was talking about.
 

hexagon789

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If it is advertised then it should be provided. If you cant provide catering dont advertise it.
The train I was on 1316 Perth to Inverness at the begining of July, the conductor said I could claim compensation for it.
And he did seem knowledgeable and I think new washe was talking about.

If you were travelling in first class and no catering was provided then I would agree you could claim for no tea/coffee etc. If in standard I don't think you can, especially because it is explicitly not guaranteed simply "may be available".
 

kkong

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Where on the website? All I could see was suitably ambiguous wording which was why I checked with the Twitter team who said none were upgradeable using the upgrade route.

There is nothing on the website, which is why I queried ScotRail customer service and received the following reply (at the second time of asking, after the usual "answer to a question you didn't ask" to the first e-mail).

Dear kkong,

Thank you for your email.

I have just had clarification form our ticketing team and they have responded.

Valid with the following ticket types.

• Anytime and Anytime Day
• Off-Peak Returns and Off-Peak Day Returns
• Smart Super Off-Peak Day Returns
• Season Tickets
• Club 50 Discounted Off-Peak Tickets
• Central Scotland Rover
• Flexipass

Inter7City Weekday First supplements are not valid in conjunction with small group fares such as Friends Fare, GroupSave and Kids For A Quid, nor on special temporary promotional fares.

I hope this helps

Yours sincerely

xxxxxxx
Customer Relations
ScotRail
 

yorkie

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I think that's fairly standard though, do any TOCs allow upgrades to first on std advances?
I'm not aware of any TOCs other than XC - and now Scotrail - who get fussy over such things.

I doubt many Scotrail Guards would actually refuse such a sale if there space available.
If it is advertised then it should be provided. If you cant provide catering dont advertise it.
The train I was on 1316 Perth to Inverness at the begining of July, the conductor said I could claim compensation for it.
And he did seem knowledgeable and I think new washe was talking about.
See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/consumer-law-and-complimentary-items.171826/
 

hexagon789

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I'm not aware of any TOCs other than XC - and now Scotrail - who get fussy over such things.

Perhaps it is because ScotRail are my local TOC - I've always believed that most/all TOCs did not allow upgrades on advances, but if anything it makes more sense for them to allow it really.
 
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