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What constitutes good station design?

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DynamicSpirit

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I'm spinning this off from one of the London Bridge discussions, since that thread is starting to see discussion of other stations that people feel have a poor design - particularly with regard to confusing layouts.

What things do you think are important in making a station friendly to passengers. What stations would you cite as good and as poor examples of good design?
 
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AlbertBeale

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I'm spinning this off from one of the London Bridge discussions, since that thread is starting to see discussion of other stations that people feel have a poor design - particularly with regard to confusing layouts.

What things do you think are important in making a station friendly to passengers. What stations would you cite as good and as poor examples of good design?

St Pancras has been mentioned - in the earlier thread - as a difficult-to-navigate station. Personally, having worked a block or two away for years, and having at one stage to use it quite often for Midland Main Line trains, I'm fine with it. The revamped version is much more complicated and less intuitive - and slow - to navigate, but I've lived through the changes and know it well, so it's not a problem for me. But the fact that I don't get lost there doesn't mean that I fail to recognise what an awful station it is for people who don't know it. (And I don't cast doubts on their intelligence, nor say I despair about the state of the world just because they find difficult something I am lucky enough to find easy. Others on the forum please note...)

Obviously, pushing the MML platforms out of the existing station, so one half of the train shed could become a shopping arcade alongside the Eurostar platforms, is a key problem, as is the fact that the fancy hotel means you can no longer enter from the road at the front like you used to. I'd say (not counting the entrance that mostly just relates to Eurostar) there are essentially 2 main ways in - on the lower level from the underground at the front, and via the new build on the east side opposite Kings Cross. And neither access gives an immediate overview of what's where in terms that are intelligible to a new user of the station who's not au fait with - and might not care about - which train company is which and so on.

A very simple diagram and explanation of the whereabouts of what are in effect 3 (if not 4) separate stations - MML, International etc, and Thameslink - would help immensely. Even just saying that the Thameslink routes - outlining them in very basic detail - are, separately, downstairs underground, would help!

Two complaints that I've had from friends and colleagues repeatedly, relate to the much slower interchange than before, and the stupid way the escalators to the MML are. People who used to come off the Met or Circle underground lines, and be on their Nottingham - or whatever - train platform (or vice versa) in a couple of minutes at most, say they now have about an extra quarter of an hour a day on their commute.

And I heard the tale of someone, not a regular user, arriving from the Met Line to go to Leicester, taking ages to find there the trains went from, getting there to find no ticket office (and they hadn't passed one on the way), going back downstairs to find the ticket office up the north end underneath the platforms, getting their ticket, and then finding the only way back up to the platform for the train they'd just bought a ticket for was to walk (seemingly) half way back to the underground where they'd started from before they found an "up" escalator to get to the platform level. They missed it. They swore a great deal about the fact that there was no way to get from the ticket office to the train without walking half the length of a shopping mall, and back again. Why on earth was the place designed with no easy connection between the trains and the tickets? At least the escalators to and from the Thameslink platforms are alongside a Thameslink ticket office.

(While I'm at it... I'm always telling people who don't know Kings Cross / St Pancras underground station to mostly ignore the interchange signs for changing between the 3 deep tube lines [and between them and other trains]. The new interchanges involve lengthy walks, where there are existing connections which take just seconds.)
 

Peter C

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I'm spinning this off from one of the London Bridge discussions, since that thread is starting to see discussion of other stations that people feel have a poor design - particularly with regard to confusing layouts.

What things do you think are important in making a station friendly to passengers. What stations would you cite as good and as poor examples of good design?
Good example - Oxford. It's simple; all the important places are clearly marked (platforms, ticket offices, toilets, barriers, etc.) and there is none of this "abstract" (I call it rubbish) art around the place. In the real world, people don't care about whether their local station has 100 pieces of artwork around the platforms; just give them the platform, the train, and the destination; commuters want to get to work and then get home.
Poor example - Bank station on the Underground is always an example of rubbish design, but in terms of National Rail, Worcester Shrub Hill springs to mind as the platforms are numbered 1a and 1b and 2 and 3; but I've never heard an announcement there saying "the next train at platform 1a" or 1b, it's always just "1". Doesn't sound difficult, but if it's a short train, having the extra info could stop people having to run down the platforms at the last minute.

Just some thoughts.

-Peter
 

mwmbwls

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I appreciate the issues raised here but would point out that most stations, unlike St Pancras - which is a difficult station - have evolved piecemeal rather than to some masterplan. The plethora of pre-grouping companies was causal factor. It should also be remembered that shopping centres thrive on dwell time and foot fall.
 

PeterC

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The original Euston rebuild design was good if a little spartan (no seating) before they filled up the concourse with retail units. You could see where everything was when entering from the road or from the Tube.

The original concept at Liverpool Street (and Kings Cross) of separate arrival and departure roads didn't survive the growth in traffic, and extension of the station. The restoration of the idea at Kings Cross is good in theory but I haven't used the station since so I don't know how it is working in practice.
 

DarloRich

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What posters here think is important and what is important are two very different things. There are several posta above that show that already.

The first point of call should be the equalities act
 

EM2

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The thing that I always bring up when St Pancras is mentioned is the 10ft tall touchscreen information points by each entrance. Almost nobody uses them Why not?
 

edwin_m

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Obviously, pushing the MML platforms out of the existing station, so one half of the train shed could become a shopping arcade alongside the Eurostar platforms, is a key problem, as is the fact that the fancy hotel means you can no longer enter from the road at the front like you used to. I'd say (not counting the entrance that mostly just relates to Eurostar) there are essentially 2 main ways in - on the lower level from the underground at the front, and via the new build on the east side opposite Kings Cross. And neither access gives an immediate overview of what's where in terms that are intelligible to a new user of the station who's not au fait with - and might not care about - which train company is which and so on.
There is also a main entrance on the west of the station opposite the eastern one you mention, which is convenient for the back street walk to Euston and walking from there down Midland Road is an easier way to exit south-westwards than trying to find your way out of the south end. Another one is the arch on the upper level in the south-east corner which can be quicker when arriving from the south-east for the East Midlands platforms than fighting through the crowds inside the Eurostar entrance (but it's pretty useless for any of the other platforms). But I agree having to choose your entrance depending which group of platforms you want is far from ideal.
And I heard the tale of someone, not a regular user, arriving from the Met Line to go to Leicester, taking ages to find there the trains went from, getting there to find no ticket office (and they hadn't passed one on the way), going back downstairs to find the ticket office up the north end underneath the platforms, getting their ticket, and then finding the only way back up to the platform for the train they'd just bought a ticket for was to walk (seemingly) half way back to the underground where they'd started from before they found an "up" escalator to get to the platform level. They missed it. They swore a great deal about the fact that there was no way to get from the ticket office to the train without walking half the length of a shopping mall, and back again. Why on earth was the place designed with no easy connection between the trains and the tickets? At least the escalators to and from the Thameslink platforms are alongside a Thameslink ticket office.
This is the worst design error at St Pancras in my opinion. Originally there was one up and one down escalator close to the barriers to shorten this route a bit, but in recent years these have both run downwards. Someone, possibly @EM2, posted that this was because people would stop at the top of the escalator to view the departure screen, risking a pile-up as people other continued to arrive behind them. The original screen has now been turned off and there are new screens at right angles not easily visible from the top of the escalator, so maybe the original flows can now be restored?
 

edwin_m

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On particular gripe I have is how the big number signs Network Rail tends to put at the entrances to each platform can be misleading. For example if arriving in Birmingham New Street from the tram stop and heading for platform 6, you see a big 6 ahead of you and to the left, but if you aim for this you find there is a glass screen in the way. The correct route to 6 is to go straight on past Pret and the other eatery (Yo! Sushi I think) then turn left through the barriers into the Yellow Lounge. There are signs to indicate this, but they are far less prominent and once people have seen the entrance to the platform they want they're unlikely to pay attention to any other signs. That side of the "6" sign, and similar misleading ones (there's probably the same situation heading from John Lewis to 5) should be removed and the general platform signage made more prominent. I think this would go a long way to resolving the annoyance caused by the layout changes at New Street. The recent platform alterations at Waverley appear to have created a similar situation.
 

yorksrob

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For a good station design, it's hard to beat Waterloo.

It manages to handle millions of passengers, lets in plenty of natural light, as well as ventilation to dissipate fumes. It has one, easy to navigate concourse, which gives level access to all the platforms, which are numbered in sequence.

Transport perfection. Lets hope no one screws it up.
 

Aictos

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What posters here think is important and what is important are two very different things. There are several posta above that show that already.

The first point of call should be the equalities act

I agree and it's why there's funding to provide step free access to stations that have qualified ie Biggleswade, Hertford North and Luton etc...

This act is the most important thing that needs to be considered for a good railway station design.
 

Peter C

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The first point of call should be the equalities act
Could you please elaborate on this? Do you mean the workers on the construction site, or the staff working in the station, or the commuters passing through?

-Peter
 

Peter C

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For a good station design, it's hard to beat Waterloo.

It manages to handle millions of passengers, lets in plenty of natural light, as well as ventilation to dissipate fumes. It has one, easy to navigate concourse, which gives level access to all the platforms, which are numbered in sequence.

Transport perfection. Lets hope no one screws it up.
It is a very good station. But, seeing what is planned for other stations around the country, Waterloo will probably be found guilty of not being up to modern standards and will be taken down to be replaced by a horrible glass mess. :)

The bars and shops around Waterloo are also all out of the way; nothing is in your face when you're trying to just get to the train. If you want consumerism, you have to go over to it instead of it being shoved in your face.

-Peter
 

yorksrob

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It is a very good station. But, seeing what is planned for other stations around the country, Waterloo will probably be found guilty of not being up to modern standards and will be taken down to be replaced by a horrible glass mess. :)

The bars and shops around Waterloo are also all out of the way; nothing is in your face when you're trying to just get to the train. If you want consumerism, you have to go over to it instead of it being shoved in your face.

-Peter

Indeed. It's improved since they cleared out some of the kiosks on the concourse.
 

hooverboy

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St Pancras has been mentioned - in the earlier thread - as a difficult-to-navigate station. Personally, having worked a block or two away for years, and having at one stage to use it quite often for Midland Main Line trains, I'm fine with it. The revamped version is much more complicated and less intuitive - and slow - to navigate, but I've lived through the changes and know it well, so it's not a problem for me. But the fact that I don't get lost there doesn't mean that I fail to recognise what an awful station it is for people who don't know it. (And I don't cast doubts on their intelligence, nor say I despair about the state of the world just because they find difficult something I am lucky enough to find easy. Others on the forum please note...)

)

st p could be easily cured by :
1)some extra steps at the far end of the lower level platforms, to connect with the underground station.(it would be easier for most passengers, not to mention the present ascent to ground floor is a huge bottleneck.

2) escalators to higher level working in opposite directions,rather than the same direction in tandem.
 

yorksrob

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st p could be easily cured by :
1)some extra steps at the far end of the lower level platforms, to connect with the underground station.
2) escalators to higher level working in opposite directions,rather than the same direction in tandem.

Also, opening up the walkway from the front of the station to the South Eastern platforms would help.
 

hooverboy

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st p could be easily cured by :
1)some extra steps at the far end of the lower level platforms, to connect with the underground station.(it would be easier for most passengers, not to mention the present ascent to ground floor is a huge bottleneck.

2) escalators to higher level working in opposite directions,rather than the same direction in tandem.


as for the bars, they are very sparcely occupied, most of them are way too expensive and way too poncey to be of much use to the average traveller.
it could be a hell of a lot worse if they'd put a burger king,maccy d's and whsmiths on that level, rather than champagne/sushi bars.
 

hooverboy

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Also, opening up the walkway from the front of the station to the South Eastern platforms would help.

sort of agree with that one too.
multiple destinations again served by different sections of the station...from platform a/b it's take a left after the barrier for south eastern, walk 100m then turn left for eurostar, or walk a further 100m for the underground...which is actually 2 sections as well.

sub surface you go down the stairs and right for circle/district/hammersmith, or you go further on for picadilly/victoria/northern.

for a noob it's not easy navigation...of which there will be many,seeing as it's eurostar and for some even the language barrier will be a bit of a problem...it certainly would be on the reverse side.
 

hooverboy

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OK. I'm assuming you mean sort of ticket-y things?

-Peter

there is a recent phenomenon, not just in train stations, but in airports also, whereby you are basically made to walk the most convoluted route possible through shops and establishments, in the hope you will be distracted and want to buy something.

the planners have made a b***ls up here I feel.
it's not just people don't like being pressured into buying stuff, but for the late connecting traveller this development is massively irritating.

I think people prefer to buy stuff when they are relaxed, which a last minute passenger trying to make a gate in time certainly is not.
 

Peter C

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there is a recent phenomenon, not just in train stations, but in airports also, whereby you are basically made to walk the most convoluted route possible through shops and establishments, in the hope you will be distracted and want to buy something.

the planners have made a b***ls up here I feel.
it's not just people don't like being pressured into buying stuff, but for the late connecting traveller this development is massively irritating.
I couldn't agree more. Trying to get around certain places where shops are put everywhere they can go is like trying to navigate Bank.

-Peter
 

hooverboy

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Is it actually wide enough for a major walking route?
for southeastern, yes, it's doable. just a very long walkway like paddington has.

for eurostar, you need something that will incorporate customs/border control
 

hooverboy

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I couldn't agree more. Trying to get around certain places where shops are put everywhere they can go is like trying to navigate Bank.

-Peter
I don't have a particular problem with heathrow T5/T2, that is pretty well designed, so all the retail is straight after security, and there's plenty of escalators down to the gate level,
but T3 is a sodding nightmare, as is stansted, as is gatwick,as is luton(which wasn't that bad until 6 months ago!)..they are all jumbled up messes where you are going to get hopelessly obstructed by aimless ambling tourists with no sense of time/direction on a windey,windey yellow brick road to oz,when you have about 5 minutes to catch a plane before the gate closes.

you need a ball of string to go through those mazes like theseus and the minotaur.
 

Ianno87

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st p could be easily cured by :
1)some extra steps at the far end of the lower level platforms, to connect with the underground station.(it would be easier for most passengers, not to mention the present ascent to ground floor is a huge bottleneck.

2) escalators to higher level working in opposite directions,rather than the same direction in tandem.

2) Is deliberate. When leaving the EMT platforms, folks naturally want to take the first escalator down - hence sending both 'near' ones down to handle the flow. The 'far' ones are set to up to manage the flow of arriving passengers.
 

Clip

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there is a recent phenomenon, not just in train stations, but in airports also, whereby you are basically made to walk the most convoluted route possible through shops and establishments, in the hope you will be distracted and want to buy something.

I dont think thats the reason at all - more likely to keep crowding to a minimum - which i believe has been mentioned many times on various poists on here - the shops are just using up what otherwise would be wasted space.. Though world duty free is certainly there to make you want to buy
 

hooverboy

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2) Is deliberate. When leaving the EMT platforms, folks naturally want to take the first escalator down - hence sending both 'near' ones down to handle the flow. The 'far' ones are set to up to manage the flow of arriving passengers.
not for people arriving from thameslink or southeastern it doesn't
the pair of down escalators is the first thing they encounter..if you have an EMT connection, that really does get on your tits
 

yorksrob

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OK. I'm assuming you mean sort of ticket-y things?

-Peter

there is a recent phenomenon, not just in train stations, but in airports also, whereby you are basically made to walk the most convoluted route possible through shops and establishments, in the hope you will be distracted and want to buy something.

the planners have made a b***ls up here I feel.
it's not just people don't like being pressured into buying stuff, but for the late connecting traveller this development is massively irritating.

I think people prefer to buy stuff when they are relaxed, which a last minute passenger trying to make a gate in time certainly is not.

There used to be kiosks for WH Smith and the like on the concourse. Perfectly acceptable when passenger numbers weren't as high, but rather in the way nowadays.

Is it actually wide enough for a major walking route?

It seems fine when I look at it.
 

hooverboy

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I dont think thats the reason at all - more likely to keep crowding to a minimum - which i believe has been mentioned many times on various poists on here - the shops are just using up what otherwise would be wasted space.. Though world duty free is certainly there to make you want to buy
it's been a known retail trait for donkeys years that aisles are made diagonal to make you stay in the shop longer, I'm just saying this is a slight modification to the practice, that's all.

same with "eye level" products..the knee to shoulder zone is where merchandise will shift.eye level is maximum exposure so very much desired.

my point is the planners seem to have forgotten there is a difference in mentality between the tourist and the business traveller during their constructions.
tourists take hours to pack, get to the airport early and mooch around for hours

business travellers are as direct through everything as you can possibly get.

in the case of places like heathrow/gatwick there is a significant amount of traffic from business use.
there is also from the smaller airports,so they should probably consider a "fast lane" corridor to the gates at the very least, if they can't separate departures and retail via a mezzanine
 
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