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Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Gingerbus1991

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30 Jul 2018
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One of the big issues with the B5LH on city work is how long they pause between gears, my understanding is that the dual clutch box would help reduce time between gears while also making them smoother. It seems odd to me that Volvo are thus far yet to offer it, especially given that the B5LH has mostly been sold in places like London.
The dual clutch still block shifts when pulling away so you still get the pause-effect from say 4 > 6 or 2 > 4 > 6 on a flat road, but it's on the move that it really comes into its from 6th through to 12th usually as it will move through 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 in sequence without missing any.

If your pulling away on steep inclines fully loaded then it does change instantly through each gear, this improves things massively, as the original single clutch unit you usually lose momentum on hills through the pause.
 
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Jordan Adam

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The dual clutch still block shifts when pulling away so you still get the pause-effect from say 4 > 6 or 2 > 4 > 6 on a flat road, but it's on the move that it really comes into its from 6th through to 12th usually as it will move through 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 in sequence without missing any.

If your pulling away on steep inclines fully loaded then it does change instantly through each gear, this improves things massively, as the original single clutch unit you usually lose momentum on hills through the pause.

B5LH's typically set off in 5th or 6th, although on hills will set off lower down. Regardless the dual clutch box would be a huge bonus nonetheless.
 

Jordan Adam

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I got told of someone from management that they had been cancelled, could be wrong though.

Seems you were right. Word now is that they are indeed a cancelled order with First cancelling all orders for Wrightbus vehicles following yet another disagreement over poor built quality. This could lead to a legal dispute as Wright are demanding that First pay for the vehicles already built (but not delivered) along with those that were in build.
 

Alexbus12

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Seems you were right. Word now is that they are indeed a cancelled order with First cancelling all orders for Wrightbus vehicles following yet another disagreement over poor built quality. This could lead to a legal dispute as Wright are demanding that First pay for the vehicles already built (but not delivered) along with those that were in build.

Interesting, yet another blow for Wrightbus.
 

LOL The Irony

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Seems you were right. Word now is that they are indeed a cancelled order with First cancelling all orders for Wrightbus vehicles following yet another disagreement over poor built quality. This could lead to a legal dispute as Wright are demanding that First pay for the vehicles already built (but not delivered) along with those that were in build.
Which First are well within their (pun unintended) right to do. First expected a certain level of quality which Wright haven't met, so First can refuse to accept them. First are a consumer so should be protected under our consumer rights laws.
 

Bornin1980s

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Most First liveried buses I've seen seem to be Wright's. Only they can be ugly enough to go with First's appalling corporate colours! I wonder what First would be ordering instead.
 

Jordan Adam

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Most First liveried buses I've seen seem to be Wright's. Only they can be ugly enough to go with First's appalling corporate colours! I wonder what First would be ordering instead.

The vast majority of First's orders since around 2015/16 have been ADL. Don't mind the corporate colours personally.
 

Volvodart

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I got told of someone from management that they had been cancelled, could be wrong though.

Someone posted on another forum the routes the next batch were going onto. Is it not just the normal Wrights building in advance being stored somewhere that have been used to be replaced by new builds by the time First Leeds want them. Presumably First do not pay for them until they are delivered?
 

Robertj21a

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Seems you were right. Word now is that they are indeed a cancelled order with First cancelling all orders for Wrightbus vehicles following yet another disagreement over poor built quality. This could lead to a legal dispute as Wright are demanding that First pay for the vehicles already built (but not delivered) along with those that were in build.

I think you may find that there's more than a grain of truth in bits of this.
 

Jordan Adam

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I think you may find that there's more than a grain of truth in bits of this.

I think i made clear by the use of the phrase "word now is" that what i posted is just the "rumours" (word of mouth). So not necessarily facts or my words/thoughts... Not having a go at anyone, i just thought i should clarify to avoid any potential confusion.

Although i agree there is truth in parts of it, we know for a fact that First among other companies has had issues with Wright over build quality in recent times. I recall there was a short lived disagreement back in 2015/16 about the quality of the Streetlites, as such First moved to E200MMCs. We also know for a fact that the recent Streetdecks are still suffering from serve water leakage where the front/rear fibreglass moulds meet the roof, this is also a long standing issue with the Streetlite that has lead to operators putting masking tape over the panel gap to try and water tight them.

The rumour about a legal dispute i can't see being true, it just doesn't make much sense. Why would Wright be demanding money from First for vehicles they've managed to flog off to Diamond. Unless Wright were wanting First to cover the costs of repainting them blue? Although again to me it just doesn't add up.

Regardless i think it's pretty fair to say that we can truly see the downfall of Wrightbus kicking in now. Loosing orders from both FirstBus and Lothian will be a huge kick in the stomach for them as in the past these were loyal Wrightbus buyers, not to mention the fall of the NB4L with operators preferring the EvoSeti and Enviro400City over the Gemini3. I think if DublinBus switch to ADL that'll be it for Wright.
 
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Mikey C

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A shame when their earlier bodywork was of such a high quality

Wasn't it First who pushed Wright into producing the Gemini 3 with its lower roof and narrow windows to save weight?
 

GaryMcEwan

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I don't see DublinBus making the switch to ADL. They've only got a handful of E400 and E500s and they are mostly the Volvo B9 variant. Everything else is Wright.

Between them and Translink they might just be able to see it through and survive.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The rumour about a legal dispute i can't see being true, it just doesn't make much sense. Why would Wright be demanding money from First for vehicles they've managed to flog off to Diamond. Unless Wright were wanting First to cover the costs of repainting them blue? Although again to me it just doesn't add up.

Rotala are taking just part of a larger batch. Also, as Wright are stuck with these, it becomes a buyers market so they could potentially be making a loss on these
 

LOL The Irony

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I don't see DublinBus making the switch to ADL. They've only got a handful of E400 and E500s and they are mostly the Volvo B9 variant. Everything else is Wright.
An Irish bus operater being the final nail in the coffin for an Irish bus builder? I agree with this post - it's not happening.
 

F Great Eastern

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I don't see DublinBus making the switch to ADL. They've only got a handful of E400 and E500s and they are mostly the Volvo B9 variant. Everything else is Wright.

Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann and the National Transport Authority have been disappointed with the build quality of recent products from Wrightbus, there's been issues with the brakes on the integral products and a large batch of Gemini 3's were recently withdrawn for mods soon after delivery due to lower deck ceiling sagging from people sitting upstairs meaning the doors couldn't function.

Dublin Bus from the early 90s until 2008 ordered nothing but Alexander based Volvo products and there is a thought that they could go back there again for a similar combination if ADL are keen enough to build large numbers of vehicles on Volvo chassis (and that's a big if) It's unlikely they'll go down the ADL integral route.

The other thing holding them back from ADL integrals is ADL simply don't have the dealer and support back-up in Ireland. All of the ADL bodied Volvos are supported by Volvo themselves and Streetlites are under the care of a Mercedes dealer. All future vehicles ordered for public service routes in Ireland will be hybrid also.
 

SpeedbirdA350

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I don't see DublinBus making the switch to ADL. They've only got a handful of E400 and E500s and they are mostly the Volvo B9 variant. Everything else is Wright.

Between them and Translink they might just be able to see it through and survive.
Lothian had 15 E400s (2011), and hundreds of WrightBus', but after the last batch of B5TLs, spoke with ADL and now are with ADL so don't look at current line up as a direction of the future as Lothian changed and that was a huge loss to WB.
 

DaveLondon

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Lothian is interesting as they remained with Volvo - the ADL bodies are on B8L chassis.
David
 

Tetchytyke

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They just need to improve their build quality and then they will get their orders back.

I don't think that's the case, the big bus companies aren't buying new at the minute, especially Arriva and First, the big Wright customers. There are fewer orders to go round, and that's before we consider the impact caused by the depressed pound.

Build issues will happen in a depressed market, we've seen it so many times, because corners get cut. The Streetlite was already built to a bargain price.

I also suspect First may be trying to worm out of their orders, given First's own financial issues (caused by their vulture capitalist shareholders deliberately trying to short the stock, it seems).
 
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SpeedbirdA350

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Lothian is interesting as they remained with Volvo - the ADL bodies are on B8L chassis.
David
Yes, Volvo has been a brilliant partner for chassis. I think the only non Volvo we have in the fleet ARE those E400s and the 6 EVs.so 21 out of a fleet of over 900. However it is expected that some B5s will be using ADL bodys soon too.
 

darloscott

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I don't think that's the case, the big bus companies aren't buying new at the minute, especially Arriva and First, the big Wright customers. There are fewer orders to go round, and that's before we consider the impact caused by the depressed pound.

Build issues will happen in a depressed market, we've seen it so many times, because corners get cut. The Streetlite was already built to a bargain price.
Arriva are in the middle of taking a substantial amount of Streetlites
 

johnw

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The CEO of ADL has often been quoted as stating that they are happy to build bodies on other manufacturers chassis as they would prefer to get half of on order than none at all. Hence the large fleets of ADL bodied Scania and MAN buses ordered by Stagecoach. Volvo were quoted last year in one the industry journals that Plaxton were their most important UK coach partner.
 

F Great Eastern

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The CEO of ADL has often been quoted as stating that they are happy to build bodies on other manufacturers chassis as they would prefer to get half of on order than none at all. Hence the large fleets of ADL bodied Scania and MAN buses ordered by Stagecoach. Volvo were quoted last year in one the industry journals that Plaxton were their most important UK coach partner.

From what I have heard they are happy to build buses on Volvo chassis but there is a premium on it over their integral products to encourage people buying the whole thing. Coaches are something different entirely since Plaxton do not build integrals.
 

Robertj21a

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They just need to improve their build quality and then they will get their orders back. The StreetLite is appalling, just glad Nottingham has none.

I think Wrights have left it too late.

The Streetlite is unpopular with many operators, and the Streetdeck fares little better. The only people who seem to like them are the Accountants.
 

Jordan Adam

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From what I have heard they are happy to build buses on Volvo chassis but there is a premium on it over their integral products to encourage people buying the whole thing. Coaches are something different entirely since Plaxton do not build integrals.

That's simply because it's cheaper to built a integral vehicle.
 

F Great Eastern

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That's simply because it's cheaper to built a integral vehicle.

Of course but there's also a question of making sure you don't reduce the attractiveness of your own integral products, so it might mean pricing the body on chassis option more than it really needs to be or is worth in order to softly push people to your integral.

Better for someone to buy an integral for £300k and make a bigger martin than a body on chassis for £320k and make a smaller margin. If you price the body on chassis option at say £350k it may mean that the operator goes for the integral option instead whereas for £320k they got for the body on chassis.
 

mbonwick

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That's simply because it's cheaper to built a integral vehicle.
Which is true, but it's not really the case for all-ADL products that are still body-on-chassis.
Even taking into account the price premium for the Volvo/Scania chassis, ADL still charge more for the bodywork element compared to using their own chassis.
 

Swanny200

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Was it not a similar case with Optare before they brought out the solo, close to going bust, substandard products. This could go two ways, either they pull a masterstroke or go bust, as with the ADL Volvo tie up, doesn't that go back to the Alexander Ailsa days?
 

F Great Eastern

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Which is true, but it's not really the case for all-ADL products that are still body-on-chassis.
Even taking into account the price premium for the Volvo/Scania chassis, ADL still charge more for the bodywork element compared to using their own chassis.

That's logical though because you want to discourage orders of your bodywork on chassis since your profit margin is far lower than it would be on an integral product.

The trick is getting that body on chassis price right so that you make more from people switching to your integral instead of going for your body on someone else chassis than you lose to people going with a different manufacturer.
 

aswilliamsuk

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Not that many, and it follows on from 2018/19 where they cancelled most of their order.

LOTS have reported today (on their news page on lots.org.uk) that Arriva Southern Counties are taking 28 Streetlites for Hemel Hempstead, and Arriva Yorkshire are due a batch of Streetdecks for the 110 (presumably between 14-18 as usual for that route). Are there more Streetlites due as well as these?
 

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