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National Rail Enquires - are they serious!

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ashworth

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I was planning on travelling from Alfreton, in Derbyshire, to Manchester tomorrow morning. Due to the Whaley Bridge dam situation there are no trains running through the Hope Valley between Sheffield and Manchester. If there is announcement that the line will reopen on Tuesday I may delay my journey by one day. However, I decided to ring East Midlands Trains to check on ticket acceptance by other routes.

The easiest route from Alfreton would be to catch the hourly Nottingham to Leeds Northern Trains Service up to Leeds and then travel by TPE or Northern to Manchester. I think tickets are being accepted that way from Sheffield. Another alternative would be to head south to Nottingham and then travel via Derby and Stoke on Trent.

When I rang East Midlands Trains to check on ticket acceptance via Leeds, my phone call was automatically redirected to National Rail Enquiries. The lady on the phone checked if it was Alfreton in Derbyshire I was travelling from and informed me that there were no trains running beyond Sheffield as the line was closed. I explained that I would like to check whether my ticket would be accepted via Leeds and she said there are no tickets available from Alfreton to Manchester via Leeds. I explained to her politely again that I knew that. I asked as the usual route was closed would my ticket be accepted via Leeds as I understood that route was being allowed from Sheffield to Manchester. I was asked to hang on whilst she checked with a supervisor.

Her eventual reply was that she has found me a route that I would be able to travel!
Alfreton to Norwich, Norwich to London Liverpool Street, tube to London Euston, London Euston to Manchester. I gave up trying to tell her that it was a ridiculous suggestion of a route. I just politely said, if necessary I will split tickets at Sheffield and go via Leeds or the direct TPE service diverted via Huddersfield. What I may do is just travel from Hucknall, my local station, via Nottingham, Derby and Stoke. I was only using Alfreton because it was much quicker and far less money.

But seriously. Telling me to travel from Alfreton to Manchester via Norwich and London. Fortunately my geographical knowledge and my knowledge of the U.K. rail system is quite good. What if I had been a foreign traveller and had taken her advice!
 
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_toommm_

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Sensibility should come in to play here, and you should be allowed to either travel via Huddersfield or Leeds.

TPE are also running a service from Sheffield to Manchester Picc via Wakefield Kirkgate and Huddersfield - I've seen EMT passengers be accepted on there today, and I was too either a Northern Only comp ticket.
 

Llandudno

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I think that some NRE calls are answered in India.

So if computer says no, then they understandably have no knowledge of UK geography!
 

CambrianCoast

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NRE is an embarrassment. Their website is woefully out of date and virtually impossible to use at times due to pop up ads and their app keeps crashing. Is there really a need for them anymore when most TOCs websites and apps are sufficient if not better?!
 

_toommm_

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NRE is an embarrassment. Their website is woefully out of date and virtually impossible to use at times due to pop up ads and their app keeps crashing. Is there really a need for them anymore when most TOCs websites and apps are sufficient if not better?!

Apart from the National Service Indicator, there's no real use for it IMO.
 

xc170

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I used to use the National Rail site for 99% of my rail travel needs, however, over the last couple of years it's got worse. Most of the time now, if I do more than a couple of searches for train times, I get "Oh no, there's been a problem"...

It's so much easier to pick up my smartphone and check one of the many TOC apps...
 

ashworth

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NRE is an embarrassment. Their website is woefully out of date and virtually impossible to use at times due to pop up ads and their app keeps crashing. Is there really a need for them anymore when most TOCs websites and apps are sufficient if not better?!

I would not usually use NRE. I was trying to find out information from the EMT website. There was information about ticket acceptance for journeys to Manchester from Norwich, Ely, Peterborough, Grantham, Nottingham and Sheffield but no information about travel from Alfreton and Chesterfield.
I therefore decided to ring the number on the EMT website and my call was automatically redirected to what I can only presume to be a NRE call centre which may have been in India.

I am fairly confident with sorting out my own rail travel tickets and routes and common sense would suggest that my ticket would be valid via Leeds. I just rang the EMT number to confirm this. What I didn’t expect was to be told to travel via Norwich and London!
 

philthetube

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Pity this is not in writing, would be a great loophole for a cheap trip to London.
 

bb21

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NRE website is OK. Nothing fancy but mostly reasonably functional.

As for the call centre, last time I rang I had to spell the words "Nottingham" and "Derby" so I am not surprised they have maintained that standard.

Of course anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise an overseas call centre with no connection to the UK hence no knowledge of basic UK geography, let alone knowledge in more complex travel enquiries, is a bad idea.
 

PHILIPE

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NRE website is OK. Nothing fancy but mostly reasonably functional.

As for the call centre, last time I rang I had to spell the words "Nottingham" and "Derby" so I am not surprised they have maintained that standard.

Of course anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise an overseas call centre with no connection to the UK hence no knowledge of basic UK geography, let alone knowledge in more complex travel enquiries, is a bad idea.

I'll go further than that and say that having the Customer Services Call Centre with whom communication is difficult, especially in respect of UK place names located in India, is atrocious customer service
 
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ashworth

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Pity this is not in writing, would be a great loophole for a cheap trip to London.

I thought along similar lines. I am in no great hurry to get from Alfreton to Manchester and have all day to do it. If it had been in writing it would have made a great long day out travelling by train around the country for just £20 with my Senior Railcard. The fact that it is only £20 for an Off Peak Return from Alfreton to Manchester is the reason why I was intending to travel from there rather than from Hucknall where the fare is approx £33.
 

sheff1

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Of course anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise an overseas call centre with no connection to the UK hence no knowledge of basic UK geography, let alone knowledge in more complex travel enquiries, is a bad idea.

Exactly, but as NRE is part of Railway Delivery Group common sense is, naturally, nowhere to be found.

The worst thing in my view is that using the 'Help' point at some stations gets you connected to NRE. Last time I tried the person who answered was adamant that the station at which I was standing did not exist.
 

Robert Mann

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This reminds me of the time I needed to travel from Llandudno to Chester and it was bus replacement services for the Rhyl to Chester leg of the journey. The route the National Rail Enquiries app gave me was sending me to Holyhead to catch a ferry over to Ireland, catch a series of trains and buses up to Northern Ireland to get another ferry over to Scotland before getting a series of trains back down to Crewe then connect for Chester there.

I knew this was completely absurd but it would have been interesting to see if it would be honoured considering it was offering all this for the standard ticket price for a Llandudno to Chester journey.
 

mmh

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This reminds me of the time I needed to travel from Llandudno to Chester and it was bus replacement services for the Rhyl to Chester leg of the journey. The route the National Rail Enquiries app gave me was sending me to Holyhead to catch a ferry over to Ireland, catch a series of trains and buses up to Northern Ireland to get another ferry over to Scotland before getting a series of trains back down to Crewe then connect for Chester there.

I knew this was completely absurd but it would have been interesting to see if it would be honoured considering it was offering all this for the standard ticket price for a Llandudno to Chester journey.

Google maps will (or at least did to me a few years ago) quite happily give overnight directions from Llandudno via Ireland, but I don't believe NRE would do this.
 

mmh

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I thought along similar lines. I am in no great hurry to get from Alfreton to Manchester and have all day to do it. If it had been in writing it would have made a great long day out travelling by train around the country for just £20 with my Senior Railcard. The fact that it is only £20 for an Off Peak Return from Alfreton to Manchester is the reason why I was intending to travel from there rather than from Hucknall where the fare is approx £33.
.
Just go via Leeds, as per the advice on the National Rail website.
 

DanTrain

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Google maps will (or at least did to me a few years ago) quite happily give overnight directions from Llandudno via Ireland, but I don't believe NRE would do this.
I wouldn’t be too sure, it suffers the usual problems of a dumb computer algorithm and can do odd things. I’ve had some really odd routes off it, I once got Chesterfield to Bletchley with about 5 changes including via West Hampstead Thaneslink so it does go a bit nuts occasionally :lol:
 

philthetube

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Google maps will (or at least did to me a few years ago) quite happily give overnight directions from Llandudno via Ireland, but I don't believe NRE would do this.

Try asking google maps for a route from London to Birkenhead port, defy you not to smile at the result. (admittedly not talking trains).
 

al78

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NRE website is OK. Nothing fancy but mostly reasonably functional.

As for the call centre, last time I rang I had to spell the words "Nottingham" and "Derby" so I am not surprised they have maintained that standard.

Of course anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise an overseas call centre with no connection to the UK hence no knowledge of basic UK geography, let alone knowledge in more complex travel enquiries, is a bad idea.

It is not a bad idea if you are trying to do things on the cheap, and it is cheaper to pay Indians than UK staff.

Money is more important that people, so the cheapest option will be taken wherever possible, and if that means externalising costs on customers, then so be it.
 

bb21

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It is not a bad idea if you are trying to do things on the cheap, and it is cheaper to pay Indians than UK staff.

Money is more important that people, so the cheapest option will be taken wherever possible, and if that means externalising costs on customers, then so be it.
Quite. That puts all the waffle about "customer focused, bla, bla..." into context.
 

DarloRich

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NRE is an embarrassment. Their website is woefully out of date and virtually impossible to use at times due to pop up ads and their app keeps crashing. Is there really a need for them anymore when most TOCs websites and apps are sufficient if not better?!

It works perfectly well for real people. What it doesn't allow for is the kind of hardcore data interrogation posters here want.

NRE website is OK. Nothing fancy but mostly reasonably functional.

agreed - it does the job that most real people need to to do which is give them train time and fare information for straight forward journeys

Of course anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise an overseas call centre with no connection to the UK hence no knowledge of basic UK geography, let alone knowledge in more complex travel enquiries, is a bad idea.

I'll go further than that and say that having the Customer Services Call Centre with whom communication is difficult, especially in respect of UK place names located in India, is atrocious customer service

Indeed - but it is much cheaper! Who phones a call centre these days anyway?
 

yorkie

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Its a shame they don't offer tickets; if they did I'd be tempted to book such an itinerary. It reminds me of the legendary Baldock to North Sheen tickets that came with reservations via Aberdeen and Inverness back in 2012.
I used to use the National Rail site for 99% of my rail travel needs, however, over the last couple of years it's got worse. ...
I agree. However there is a possibility we are both wrong, and are simply not within the definition of "real people" who are the websites intended audience. ;)
 

ashworth

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Well, ashworth did, for one!

I never ever ring call centres these days. I can’t remember the last time I did. I usually get all my information through websites. I just thought with it being a major disruption of a main EMT route, if I rang their number as given on their website, it would be answered by someone in the know at EMT. How wrong I was!
I’ve decided to travel tomorrow and will travel from Alfreton on the Northern Nottingham to Leeds service and then travel over to Manchester from there. That is if the Hope Valley Line is still closed. Perhaps I should be prepared to come back via Leeds on Saturday too.
 

Ianno87

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Of course anyone with an ounce of common sense would realise an overseas call centre with no connection to the UK hence no knowledge of basic UK geography, let alone knowledge in more complex travel enquiries, is a bad idea.

Well, if the staff were adequately *trained* in UK Geography, it wouldn't be such an issue.

Besides, most people in the UK wouldn't know where a Morchard Road to Denby Dale journey would logically pass through, so we're no better...
 

LowLevel

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Annoyingly from 2004 the formerly award winning National Rail Enquiries contact centres in the UK were closed and relocated to Mumbai with absolutely predictable consequences. The service provided is appalling. I have only tried to use them once since. Having tried to get times from Loughborough I was asked repeatedly if I was travelling from Hull Humberside. I hung up and never went back.

The worst travesty is that at some stations help points have or do go through to them which leads to stranded passengers being signposted to a useless call centre in India.
 

fishtastic

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Annoyingly from 2004 the formerly award winning National Rail Enquiries contact centres in the UK were closed and relocated to Mumbai with absolutely predictable consequences. The service provided is appalling. I have only tried to use them once since. Having tried to get times from Loughborough I was asked repeatedly if I was travelling from Hull Humberside. I hung up and never went back.

The worst travesty is that at some stations help points have or do go through to them which leads to stranded passengers being signposted to a useless call centre in India.

But from a management point of view, it's fantastic. Employees in the call centre are cheaper, customers ring up and get frustrated by lack of knowledge and language barrier, customers stop calling, management reduce the number of staff required due to no-one ringing anymore as they must all be online as calling is old fashioned, close service completely, saved 100% the old call centre costs... MBAs and trebles all round.
 

Llanigraham

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Well, if the staff were adequately *trained* in UK Geography, it wouldn't be such an issue.

Besides, most people in the UK wouldn't know where a Morchard Road to Denby Dale journey would logically pass through, so we're no better...

It can be great fun trying to ask about tickets from places in Wales!

Try asking google maps for a route from London to Birkenhead port, defy you not to smile at the result. (admittedly not talking trains).

I must be doing something wrong, but it doesn't recognise Birkenhead Port.
How about a screen shot?
 
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