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SouthEastern franchise direct award through to 1 April 2020 (& franchise competition terminated)

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ComUtoR

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What this latest development shows is that we currently have the most extraordinarily incompetent government

I get where you are coming from but you also had 3 companies who decided to submit non compliant bids to get out of their responsibilities and cry like children when they don't get their own way.

What I foresee is that they will win and that the Government takes a further step back from franchising and privatization takes another step towards milking the industry dry.

A few years back our pension was in a 17% surplus. Now we are in a deficit. Granted there are a combination of factors that haven't helped.

This is bad for the Southeast. Another year of stagnation and however long it takes to hand over.
 
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hwl

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Bid to run Southeastern rail route scrapped.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49262115


the worst waste
Continuing would leave them open to even more Stagecoach claims in the high court.
Funding signalling improvements was "innovative" but questionable on delivery.

The bid costs will be very high given the length of time so they will be looking to recoup even if the wording says not as there will be an issue of DfT competence.
 
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ScotGG

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Remember when Grayling ripped up the agreement between London's Mayor and Patrick Mclaughlin and people said the DfT would want to show what they could do.

They've done that alright.
 

Geogregor

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By the time this fiasco is resolved most of Networkers will die a slow death. There is only that much you can fix with duck tape...

But then, Pacers are still running in the north...
 

greatescape

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I get where you are coming from but you also had 3 companies who decided to submit non compliant bids to get out of their responsibilities and cry like children when they don't get their own way.

What I foresee is that they will win and that the Government takes a further step back from franchising and privatization takes another step towards milking the industry dry.

A few years back our pension was in a 17% surplus. Now we are in a deficit. Granted there are a combination of factors that haven't helped.

This is bad for the Southeast. Another year of stagnation and however long it takes to hand over.
a general election (probably) is held first.
And Regime change.
Will the FC system continue?
 
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And here we go again.

I'm sure that this decision was likely already being considered by Grayling's DfT before Shapps took the reins. Given the franchising mess, legal challenges and the pending review, it's not entirely surprising they decided to rip up this shambles of a competition. It's just a shame that they didn't want to admit this sooner, and that the South East commuters get the worst end of the deal - no investment and no increases in capacity to meet demand. All whilst their fares continue to go up each year.
 

HH

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The problem is that the bids went in around 2 years ago and have been refreshed a huge number of times but t there come a point when just to much of the basic info has changed.
Not quite that long ago and there is a process for dealing with delays. As I said previously though, it made sense to cancel, but for Grayling it would have been another failing. His successor can make the decision far more easily. The extension to April 2020 was a nailed on certainty anyway; DfT will now have to do something for 20/21, presumably yet another Direct Award...
 

ScotGG

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It's a real mess. No additional capacity anytime soon. No work on expanding stabling space. It'll be years before improvements as many new homes going up beside so many stations. Kidbrooke alone is huge.
 

hwl

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Not quite that long ago and there is a process for dealing with delays. As I said previously though, it made sense to cancel, but for Grayling it would have been another failing. His successor can make the decision far more easily. The extension to April 2020 was a nailed on certainty anyway; DfT will now have to do something for 20/21, presumably yet another Direct Award...
Would that the 7th (or more direct award) from next April?
The problem with refreshing bids is that there gets to a point where just too much has changed and the thinking no longer holds.
 

brad465

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It's a real mess. No additional capacity anytime soon. No work on expanding stabling space. It'll be years before improvements as many new homes going up beside so many stations. Kidbrooke alone is huge.
Are the Chart Leacon works not independent from SE in being sorted for more space (albeit it will take ages to reopen anyway)? Besides as recently discussed in another thread one of the other problems in siding space is Dartford had to take one of its sidings out of use for safety reasons, so it's not just new space that's needed, but also trying to use existing space better.
 

pdeaves

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Would that the 7th (or more direct award) from next April?
We are currently in the fifth direct award, and the extension to April is just an option taken on the previous extension. Therefore, from April another direct award would be the sixth (or 'too-many'th!).
 

Mikey C

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But who pays for it? The TOC won't as they could be gone by November or April next year. The ROSCO will be unlikely to do so either as they will be worried that their expensively modified units could be without a home within a short period of time depending on what the new franchisee does.

The DfT, seeing that a lot of this is being caused by the non award of the franchise? Or allowing an exemption to allow operating single 466s on specific branch lines
 

HH

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We are currently in the fifth direct award, and the extension to April is just an option taken on the previous extension. Therefore, from April another direct award would be the sixth (or 'too-many'th!).
Officially the current DA is the third.

The problem with refreshing bids is that there gets to a point where just too much has changed and the thinking no longer holds.
Not really the case here. The only major change is the new Metro Rolling Stock and that can easily be moved back.
 

ScotGG

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Isn't Chart Leacon just a like-for-like as Thameslink take over a SE depot/sidings?
 

ScotGG

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Officially the current DA is the third.


Not really the case here. The only major change is the new Metro Rolling Stock and that can easily be moved back.

How long can the networkers solider on? Many are abysmal inside too, though the ones more like for the chop (that weren't re-tractioned) are more welcoming inside since new flooring installed. The others are so drab.

Do you have any numbers on metro passenger figures at the moment?
 

hwl

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Isn't Chart Leacon just a like-for-like as Thameslink take over a SE depot/sidings?
Yep but with the potential for more if bidders were so minded.
Only a small CL option is currently agreed.
DfT comments on capacity may indicate that they go for a bigger Chart Leacon option and get Govia /NR to do it. Ditto getting Dartford siding sorted along with some other brain dead stabling mods.
 

pdeaves

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Officially the current DA is the third.
As you are clearly 'in the know' (at least to some extent), please could you clarify where my understanding is awry (to make sure the record is correct)?
I have:
1 April 2006 to 31 March 2014 (original franchise)
1 April 2014 to 11 October 2014 (extension 1)
12 October 2014 to 23 June 2018 (extension 2)
24 June 2018 to 5 January 2019 (extension 3)
6 January 2019 to 22 June 2019 (extension 4)
23 June 2019 to 1 April 2020 (extension 5)
If we are know only in extension 3, which ones are effectively combined? Is my list completely goofy? Sometimes finding out dates after the event is surprisingly difficult!
Thanks!
 

brad465

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Yep but with the potential for more if bidders were so minded.
Only a small CL option is currently agreed.
DfT comments on capacity may indicate that they go for a bigger Chart Leacon option and get Govia /NR to do it. Ditto getting Dartford siding sorted along with some other brain dead stabling mods.
What other sidings are "brain dead"? In regard to small or big CL I thought the plan was to open the whole yard, if stabling size is what you mean. Also the Hitachi yard TL want to use is much larger than the 6 700s they want to stable there, so I presume SE will still hold most of it on CL reopening.
 

hwl

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What other sidings are "brain dead"? Also in regard to small or big CL I thought the plan was to open the whole yard, if stabling size is what you mean.
CL - They were only going for enough space to deal with the units displaced by 4/5 TL units moving in across the tracks i.e. the bare minimum rather than whole site.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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A 5-month extension is not long enough for a full rebid of the franchise.
It just gives the DfT time to consider the Williams output before deciding what to do.
The extension might turn out to be a lot longer.
I'm just looking for whether anything similar has been decided about West Coast.
 

4-SUB 4732

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Go-Ahead's official press release on this is here, although City AM's article has mostly reused it word for word.

All eyes on the Williams Rail Review now it would seem...

Ah yes, the Williams Review. Where the Government will already have decided on a new route and he will have been told to conclude it whilst at great public expense. Can’t wait!
 

StaffsWCML

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I get where you are coming from but you also had 3 companies who decided to submit non compliant bids to get out of their responsibilities and cry like children when they don't get their own way.

What I foresee is that they will win and that the Government takes a further step back from franchising and privatization takes another step towards milking the industry dry.

A few years back our pension was in a 17% surplus. Now we are in a deficit. Granted there are a combination of factors that haven't helped.

This is bad for the Southeast. Another year of stagnation and however long it takes to hand over.

Why should these companies take a liability for something that existed before their time, why should they take on a liability of something that will exist most likely after their time.

The system is flawed and not fit for purpose.

The only companies that will bid for these franchises are incompetent useless garbage. Who wins here? No the rail traveller that's for sure! Just because it ticks a few government boxes.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...ws-better-service-for-commuters-a4207586.html

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps today axed a contest to run a busy London rail service as he vowed to “bring punctuality back to Britain’s railways”.

The Cabinet minister ditched the latest attempt to refranchise the Southeastern network.

He told The Standard: “As a long-suffering commuter, my priority is to build a system where the trains actually run on time.


“Two franchise attempts have failed because they won’t provide value for money for users so I’m cancelling a further attempt and providing a short extension to the existing train company. I’m determined to bring punctuality back to Britain’s railways.”


Grant Shapps said: "As a long-suffering commuter, my priority is to build a system where the trains actually run on time." (Getty Images)
Mr Shapps believes that the key to reducing delays and cancellations is to bring more accountability to the rail network.


Keith Williams, the former boss of British Airways who was appointed to review how the railways are run, has proposed that a “Fat Controller-type” figure should oversee the day-to-day running of services.

This individual would be independent from the Government, which would make decisions on budgets and the overall policy.


‘Its trains are like wild west’
The Southeastern network has been run by the Go-Ahead Group’s Govia since 2006, and has been deeply unpopular with passengers for much of that period because of delays, unreliability and rising fares.

In 2014 the service came joint bottom in the country in a survey by Which magazine, with just 40 per cent of passengers rating it “satisfactory”. The operator further enraged commuters by claiming it had scored poorly only because it “takes people somewhere they don’t want to be with money they don’t want to pay”.

In April 2015, Sir Peter Hendy, then commissioner of Transport for London, said of Southeastern: “The trains are like the Wild West … awful. And then every now and then some people who look like the Gestapo get on and fine everyone they can. It doesn’t improve your day, does it?”

Ministers are also looking at how the Tube is run by Transport for London as an example of how a rail system can be operated successfully.

More than half a million passengers use Southeastern services a day on routes from Kent and East Sussex to London. The Department for Transport started a refranchising competition for the network two years ago, made a second attempt last year, and it was abandoned today.


A DfT spokesman said: “We have taken the decision to cancel the Southeastern franchise competition.

“This follows significant concerns that continuing the competition process would lead to additional costs incurred to the taxpayer, with no certainty that this would deliver envisaged benefits for passengers in a timely fashion.

“The Department will use this period to develop a solution that delivers the capacity and performance benefits that passengers are expecting and ensure that the recommendations of Mr Williams’s review can be implemented.”


David Brown, chief executive of the Go-Ahead Group, which owns Southeastern through a joint venture with Keolis, insisted it had put in a “strong bid” which he said would have “built upon the achievements of Southeastern in recent years in improving performance and satisfaction and delivering more capacity and investment”.


He added: “Whilst we’re disappointed that our original bid is not being taken forward, we will engage with the DfT on next steps.”

Southeastern managing director David Statham said: “We’re proud to have delivered more than £80 million of improvements for passengers since we began a new direct award contract in 2014.

“Punctuality has improved by nearly 10 per cent in two years, we’ve introduced free wifi on our trains and boosted capacity on board with 5,000 extra seats.


“Over this next extension period our focus remains on our passengers, delivering more improvements and continuing to improve the punctuality and reliability of our services.”

But RMT general secretary Mick Cash said: “The cancellation of the competition for Southeastern shows yet again that the privatised rail system is broken and coming apart at the seams.

“You cannot run a serious and reliable rail service on the hoof and yet that is what the Government are doing and passengers paying a small fortune to travel on the Southeastern services will be rightly outraged.”

The Standard revealed yesterday how thousands of London commuters face rail fare hikes of more than £100 on their season ticket in January. Regulated fares, which include season and commuter tickets, are due to go up by around 2.7 per cent in the New Year, above the main rate of inflation, based on the controversial formula for setting prices to use Britain’s rail network.

More info from Shapps himself.
 

Robertj21a

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Has anyone got the formal announcement from the government, rather than media reports ?
 

hwl

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A 5-month extension is not long enough for a full rebid of the franchise.
It just gives the DfT time to consider the Williams output before deciding what to do.
The extension might turn out to be a lot longer.
I'm just looking for whether anything similar has been decided about West Coast.
The 5 months is largely to sort out how long the next extension needs to be and what short term measure to take during it.
 

theageofthetra

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Indeed. Slightly surprised the didn't go for lock the toilet on the branch lines option.

That would dis
The DfT, seeing that a lot of this is being caused by the non award of the franchise? Or allowing an exemption to allow operating single 466s on specific branch lines
I do think some sort of special arrangement will end up being agreed for 466's on Grove Park/Bromley North as it's such a short journey. You have the ridiculous situation that those with the greatest mobility issues can't use the line anyway as there is no step free access at Grove Park from P1 (that's a whole other debate)

The toilet on the unit must be in working order too as it's the only toilet facility available to the train crew due to turnaround times and station toilet opening hours.
 

brad465

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That would dis

I do think some sort of special arrangement will end up being agreed for 466's on Grove Park/Bromley North as it's such a short journey. You have the ridiculous situation that those with the greatest mobility issues can't use the line anyway as there is no step free access at Grove Park from P1 (that's a whole other debate)

The toilet on the unit must be in working order too as it's the only toilet facility available to the train crew due to turnaround times and station toilet opening hours.
I also thought another problem with 466 compliance is there is no disabled seating area being fitted, according to its own thread on refurbishment, regardless of the toilet situation?
 

HH

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As you are clearly 'in the know' (at least to some extent), please could you clarify where my understanding is awry (to make sure the record is correct)?
I have:
1 April 2006 to 31 March 2014 (original franchise)
1 April 2014 to 11 October 2014 (extension 1)
12 October 2014 to 23 June 2018 (extension 2)
24 June 2018 to 5 January 2019 (extension 3)
6 January 2019 to 22 June 2019 (extension 4)
23 June 2019 to 1 April 2020 (extension 5)
If we are know only in extension 3, which ones are effectively combined? Is my list completely goofy? Sometimes finding out dates after the event is surprisingly difficult!
Thanks!
You're muddling extensions and Direct Awards. DAs are 2, 4 & 5 on your list. The others are extensions of existing Franchise or DA.
 

greatescape

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The 5 months is largely to sort out how long the next extension needs to be and what short term measure to take during it.
In the future, rather than having one organization manage all of a franchise, why not have multiple organizations manage one franchise?
For example,
The main contract Govia and the subcontract Abellio will be used simultaneously to compete in FC.
If Govia falls, Abellio can follow up.

We can improve the quality of each business by making them compete in FC.

If one fails, other organizations can follow up.

It is also risk diversification.
 
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