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Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

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ScotRail158725

ScotRail158725

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ejstubbs said:
I don't know whether it's just down to festival traffic volumes, or the introduction of the ex-London middle door buses*, or what, but information on the TforE app for the number 4 seems to be very flaky at the moment. For example:
  • Last week I rolled up to the Haymarket stop to get a southbound bus and the display at the stop said that the next bus was 27 minutes away - not great for a service with is supposed to run roughly every 15 minutes. The app said the same thing, but when I called up the map display in the app it clearly showed a Hillend-bound bus just about to turn in to Torphichen Street. Sure enough, just a couple of minutes later it rolled round the corner from Morrison Street.
  • A few days later I was waiting at my 'home' stop for a bus in to town. The app showed the next bus due in two minutes, but greyed out with an asterisk next to it which AFAIU means "this is when it's meant to be there but we don't actually know where it is". Again, calling up the map display clearly showed a bus heading to The Jewel just about turn on to Oxgangs Road. So for the second time the schedule displayed by the app seemed to be disconnected from the tracking information.
  • This morning at the same stop the app showed one bus due in six minutes and another due in seven minutes! Highly unlikely, given that my stop is only 3-4 minutes from the Hillend terminus. I called up the map display and this time it zoomed off to show me a bus heading east on Princes Street, but clearly showing it as due at my stop at 08:43!
I don't expect the information to be 100% reliable 100% of the time but it does appear to be unreliable verging on being worse than useless at the moment. Is this something I can report to LB somehow? (I have screenshots of the last two instances showing how the schedule and the map disagreed at the time.)

On a related subject: does anyone know why the bus information screen inside Haymarket station shows times for all Lothian buses due at the three Haymarket stops (HA, HF and HG) except for the number 4 southbound? The screen itself clearly carries ScotRail branding, and it's their station, but their response when I pointed the problem out to them was "nothing to do with us mate you need to talk to LB".

* The wifi on these buses seems to work differently, too - you still have to go to the clickbait-y LetsJoin page but you don't then have to click the "Go online" button to get full access to the 'net. Or is this a change that's been implemented across the whole fleet?
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probobly due to festival traffic
 
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ScotRail158725

ScotRail158725

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Jordan Adam said:
Granted it's only the first day but i can't help but notice that the XLB's are not managing to stick to timetable and bunching up with large gaps in service (currently at least 20 minutes between 1126 and 1139).

Currently bunched together are 1128/1139/1132, 1134/1135 & 1131/1140.

Edit: 1139 departed Edinburgh Airport 8 minutes late at 17:17 meaning there was a 27 minute gap in service. It's currently just got on to Eastfield Road while the bus ahead of it is at Haymarket!

Further Edit: To make matters worse 1131/1140/1137/1136/1133 are all operating towards the Airport together.
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i noticed an airlink free waverley bridge today wich ive never seen before got almost to the end of princess street where 3 XLBs passed in 2 mins, not going very well
 
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RomeoCharlie71

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I have just read on Twitter that the new TravelHub doesn't sell bus tickets; you have to go to Waverley Bridge for these. Is this true?
 
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Andyh82

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Jordan Adam said:
Granted it's only the first day but i can't help but notice that the XLB's are not managing to stick to timetable and bunching up with large gaps in service (currently at least 20 minutes between 1126 and 1139).

Currently bunched together are 1128/1139/1132, 1134/1135 & 1131/1140.

Edit: 1139 departed Edinburgh Airport 8 minutes late at 17:17 meaning there was a 27 minute gap in service. It's currently just got on to Eastfield Road while the bus ahead of it is at Haymarket!

Further Edit: To make matters worse 1131/1140/1137/1136/1133 are all operating towards the Airport together.
Click to expand...

How does this compare with how the previous Airlink buses coped in the middle of the festival?
 
Auld reekie

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FlybeDash8Q400 said:
They are struggling with Waverley Bridge, some buses if they take it wide enough and slowly get round but most need to reverse at some point.

A new route in the city is needed I think
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I’m led to believe that buses are not allowed to reverse on the roads.
 
OmniCity999

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FlybeDash8Q400 said:
They are struggling with Waverley Bridge, some buses if they take it wide enough and slowly get round but most need to reverse at some point.

A new route in the city is needed I think
Click to expand...

When the festival is over, i believe the route is to revert back, although dont quote me on that.
 
FlybeDash8Q400

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Anyone got fleet details on the further additional vehicles for the city sightseeing? Appear to be ex Go Ahead buses but could be wrong, was looking at a twitter post about them being wrapped up
 
VioletEclipse

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All except for 1130 have entered service today, and they are very comfortable but do have a habit of travelling in threes, and then leaving a large gap before the next one.
 
OmniCity999

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VioletEclipse said:
All except for 1130 have entered service today, and they are very comfortable but do have a habit of travelling in threes, and then leaving a large gap before the next one.
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To say that has anything to do with the buses themselves is absurd. This has been an issue on Airlink for the last 3-5 years, especially in festival/christmas periods. It just so happens people are noticing it and discussing it due to all the hype and social media / forum presence surrounding these new buses. Using Princes Street at all should be avoided at all costs if possible. It's the start of the biggest arts festival in the world right now and understandably, the city is struggling.

Think hypothetically, revert the route back and remove the festival as a contributor and there will be minimum change compared to before. Between 8am-8pm Airlinks regularly run in 2's or 3's as it is. A new solution needs to be put in place.

Run the route Between Haymarket and St Andrew Square via George Street (using Queen Street where applicable during the current festival arrangements) or Haymarket to Waverley Bridge Via Grosvenor Crescent, Melville Street, Queensferry Street, George Street (Or Queen Street currently) then Hannover Street, Mound and Waverley Bridge. With stops on Rosebery Street (for Haymarket) and Hannover Street (for City Centre). Running along Princes Street towards the Airport as normal. It's the junction of Waverley Bridge, Princes Street, South St David Street and North Bridge that's the main issue.

Or ideally next year they'd move the attraction on George Street that is causing the issues.
 
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Jordan Adam

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VioletEclipse said:
All except for 1130 have entered service today, and they are very comfortable but do have a habit of travelling in threes, and then leaving a large gap before the next one.
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As noted above at one point 5 were running together at Haymarket for the Airport, while at the same time another 3 were at Ingliston heading for the City Centre. The rest of them were in the city centre too. Thus leaving a 30 minute gap in both directions and no buses at all in either direction between Haymarket and Ingliston!
 
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A330Alex

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OmniCity999 said:
To say that has anything to do with the buses themselves is absurd. This has been an issue on Airlink for the last 3-5 years, especially in festival/christmas periods. It just so happens people are noticing it and discussing it due to all the hype and social media / forum presence surrounding these new buses. Using Princes Street at all should be avoided at all costs if possible. It's the start of the biggest arts festival in the world right now and understandably, the city is struggling.

Think hypothetically, revert the route back and remove the festival as a contributor and there will be minimum change compared to before. Between 8am-8pm Airlinks regularly run in 2's or 3's as it is. A new solution needs to be put in place.

Run the route Between Haymarket and St Andrew Square via George Street (using Queen Street where applicable during the current festival arrangements) or Haymarket to Waverley Bridge Via Grosvenor Crescent, Melville Street, Queensferry Street, George Street (Or Queen Street currently) then Hannover Street, Mound and Waverley Bridge. With stops on Rosebery Street (for Haymarket) and Hannover Street (for City Centre). Running along Princes Street towards the Airport as normal. It's the junction of Waverley Bridge, Princes Street, South St David Street and North Bridge that's the main issue.

Or ideally next year they'd move the attraction on George Street that is causing the issues.
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Interesting to think where Airlink (and the tours) might be moved when Waverley Bridge is pedestrianised. Waterloo Place? Queen Street?
 
ScotRail158725

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FlybeDash8Q400 said:
Anyone got fleet details on the further additional vehicles for the city sightseeing? Appear to be ex Go Ahead buses but could be wrong, was looking at a twitter post about them being wrapped up
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1000/1141-1153 are ex go-ahead, 251-255 CS ones are the same batch as 1003-1050 Ex Metroline they just went to a London tour company between Metroline and Lothian
 
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Trident638

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The bunching/ gaps in service are nothing to do with the tri-axles entering service, it has been more of an issue since the 14th July when the times were cut by 3 mins in each direction plus the festival traffic being worse this year
 
ScotRail158725

ScotRail158725

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Trident638 said:
The bunching/ gaps in service are nothing to do with the tri-axles entering service, it has been more of an issue since the 14th July when the times were cut by 3 mins in each direction plus the festival traffic being worse this year
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No it definately is the XLBs. Until Yesterday airlinks were operating with usual gaps and 2 or so were on Waverley bridge at a time but today there was massive gaps of none or 3-5
 
OmniCity999

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ScotRail158725 said:
No it definately is the XLBs. Until Yesterday airlinks were operating with usual gaps and 2 or so were on Waverley bridge at a time but today there was massive gaps of none or 3-5
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seriously? in the last week, the biggest arts festival in the world has just started and the new buses have come into operation, as well as a reduction in time. Couple that to a small city with a small road network and excess traffic, most of which is extra buses, coaches and trucks, not to mention the extra foot traffic. Each festival site needs upwards of 10 trucks to get it open. Theres over 350 venues across around 20 sites...* Of course theres been an adverse effect on operating conditions. It's not the buses, its the operating time change and the start of the festival.

The buses themselves cant cause the bunching, are you serious? :p

*i worked in the festival over 10 years ago and since then it has grown, so the 10 trucks per site figure has probably grown.
 
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VioletEclipse

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OmniCity999 said:
To say that has anything to do with the buses themselves is absurd.
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Oops I didn't make it very clear that I wasn't directly talking about the vehicles but more about the service, caused mainly by traffic, an increased number of traffic and road closures, all because of the festival.
 
VioletEclipse

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ScotRail158725 said:
No it definately is the XLBs. Until Yesterday airlinks were operating with usual gaps and 2 or so were on Waverley bridge at a time but today there was massive gaps of none or 3-5
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The XLBs are causing slight issues at the Market Street roundabout, not helped by the fact that they often set off two or even three at a time to clear space for buses behind, although the latter is no fault of the XLBs aside from their extra length. We will see how they cope when the festival is over and George Street has reopened, as to which issues are caused by traffic/road closures/extra passengers and which can be blamed on the XLBs :)
 
VioletEclipse

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ScotRail158725 said:
My guess would be St Andrew Square because charlotte square isnt really used by tourists, they’re more likely to go to St Andrew Square
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The only problem with St Andrews Square is that it doesn't have all to much space for all of the tours, Airlink, service 43 and, when they run, the X50, 98, X99 and 777 - not forgetting the twice-yearly SVBM shuttle bus which hardly makes a difference.
 
OmniCity999

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VioletEclipse said:
The only problem with St Andrews Square is that it doesn't have all to much space for all of the tours, Airlink, service 43 and, when they run, the X50, 98, X99 and 777 - not forgetting the twice-yearly SVBM shuttle bus which hardly makes a difference.
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It would be a lot easier than you think to move the the 43 to Regent Road to then move the entirety of the tours and Airlink to St Andrew Square.

Airlink & X50/X99 on the north side, do away with the parking on the nearside. Tours could then run from the south side and do away with parking on the south side (nearside), 98 largely runs from George Street now, but could easily be moved to Regent Road.

The 777 and SVBM shuttles are, as you say irrelevant on the bigger picture as they are only between 1 - 3 days of the year each, but could run from either side. But the SVBM shuttle (which isnt even a service) could run from Regent Road or London Road for the enthusiasts and the 777 could run from the West End (via George Street).
 
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ScotRail158725

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OmniCity999 said:
It would be a lot easier than you think to move the the 43 to Regent Road to then move the entirety of the tours and Airlink to St Andrew Square.

Airlink & X99 on the north side, do away with the parking on the nearside. Tours could then run from the south side and do away with parking on the south side (nearside), 98 largely runs from George Street now, but could easily be moved to Regent Road.
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thats what i was thinking of, using the south and moving the 43 to Regent Road
 
Jordan Adam

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I don't think the XLB's were the sole issue, but they were certainly part of it. As with any new vehicle type roll out the first day is going to be sketchy and full of late running. However 30 minute+ gaps on a 8 minute frequency service and 5 buses running together really is quite something.
 
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A330Alex

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On a different topic, how happy is the marriage between Lothian & Edinburgh Trams through Transport for Edinburgh these days? It seems like Lothian has been doing all it can to remove any mention of Transport for Edinburgh. Getting rid of the TfE logo on buses, branding the new TravelHub as 'by Lothian' with no TfE signage and not mentioning them on their homepage.

With fare capping introduced solely on Lothian services it makes me worried that integration between the two is lacking. Are Lothian resentful at having to contribute towards the tram extension?
 
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ejstubbs

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ScotRail158725 said:
probobly due to festival traffic
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Not sure how festival traffic accounts for the departure boards being so badly out of sync with the tracking information. Surely one of the key reasons for having tracking is so that you can tell where buses are when they are running late?

Yesterday evening both the app and the departure board at Haymarket were showing a number 4 due in 2 minutes (but with the asterisk, and greyed out on the app). Yet the tracking map in the app clearly showed the nearest Hillend bus as not even having reached Princes Street. I waited until the "due" bus had disappeared from the display and the next one was showing as 23 minutes away (again with the asterisk), waited a minute or two longer to see if there maybe was an untracked bus somewhere in the vicinity, then gave up and walked up to Lothian Road to get an 11.

What's the point of being able to track the buses if the information isn't taken in to account for the departure board displays? Misleading or plain wrong information is worse than no information at all!
 
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