December 2019 Timetable Change

That is down to XC taking advantage of Derby re modelling.

There should also be a fourth one -1828 off New St I think.

Pumbaa said:

There should also be a fourth one -1828 off New St I think.

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The 1828 is showing as its current path at the moment.

Just as it happens I was reading an article in modern railways about the speed up of Cross Country services the other day from December. Hopefully from may all the Newcastle services could be sped up as this could allow for a extra voyager to be used to double up on another service. The turn around times are around 80 minuets on the faster services.

Looking at EMR there's a number of extra Corby to Kettering and return services using the unit that arrives at Corby from St Pancras around xx54 before returning to St Pancras at xx41.

Comparison tool live for current / December 2019

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/

(RDG feed via http://data.atoc.org/ updated weekly, Saturday AM)

Is XC basically running the same timetable? Dont see many changes if any. SW to NE seems identical.

RailAleFan said:

Comparison tool live for current / December 2019

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/

(RDG feed via http://data.atoc.org/ updated weekly, Saturday AM)

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Not sure whether the underlying data for December is already fixed / definite or a working draft or a mixture of both? Can anyone clarify please?

Whatever the answer, various features on the website are useful - thanks for flagging!

Mixture of both. Until it goes live on journey planners it should be treated as subject to change and potentially incomplete.

The Planner said:

That is down to XC taking advantage of Derby re modelling.

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The Derby rebuild allows XC to save some 20 minutes? That seems an awful lot of time saved against the old layout. Could you explain?

70014IronDuke said:

The Derby rebuild allows XC to save some 20 minutes? That seems an awful lot of time saved against the old layout. Could you explain?

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Derby itself only saves a couple of minutes or so.

But it's that couple of minutes that (for example) mean you can get in front of another path at (say) Sheffield or Doncaster that you couldn't before. So lots of existing pathing time in the schedule to go "behind" trains previously in front can be stripped out to fit into a much quicker path overall.

Ianno87 said:

Derby itself only saves a couple of minutes or so.

But it's that couple of minutes that (for example) mean you can get in front of another path at (say) Sheffield or Doncaster that you couldn't before. So lots of existing pathing time in the schedule to go "behind" trains previously in front can be stripped out to fit into a much quicker path overall.

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I remember the Norton Bridge effect on XC. The time (& reliability) it saved allowed the Voyager to run ahead rather behind the VT service from Euston at Stoke & that couple of minutes bounced up to 12 by Macclesfield.

Ianno87 said:

Derby itself only saves a couple of minutes or so.

But it's that couple of minutes that (for example) mean you can get in front of another path at (say) Sheffield or Doncaster that you couldn't before. So lots of existing pathing time in the schedule to go "behind" trains previously in front can be stripped out to fit into a much quicker path overall.

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Aha! Thank you for the explanation. Must have been a significant factor underpinning the cost of the Derby re-modelling, I assume.

Ianno87 said:

Derby itself only saves a couple of minutes or so.

But it's that couple of minutes that (for example) mean you can get in front of another path at (say) Sheffield or Doncaster that you couldn't before. So lots of existing pathing time in the schedule to go "behind" trains previously in front can be stripped out to fit into a much quicker path overall.

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In this case, 12 out of the 20 minutes saving is achieved by reducing dwell time at New Street from 12 to 10 mins and at Derby from 12 mins to 2. By leaving New Street 2 mins earlier at xx28 and saving 4 mins to Derby, arrives at xx58 (rather than xx04) enabling it to leave at xx00 (rather than xx16), so ahead of the xx09 EM St Pancras to Sheffield which, unlike the XC, calls at Chesterfield. The XC then saves another 4 mins to Sheffield, taking just 27 mins over this section. In the current timetable, only then 0921 and 2006 cover it in this time.

ainsworth74 said:

Mixture of both. Until it goes live on journey planners it should be treated as subject to change and potentially incomplete.

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Thanks!

The comparison tool is certainly incomplete at the moment, since the Hull, Bridlington and Scarborough service is only about 10% on there.

YorksDMU said:

The comparison tool is certainly incomplete at the moment, since the Hull, Bridlington and Scarborough service is only about 10% on there.

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I believe they are actually all there - the problem is that Hull appears in light type on the Sheffield - Scarborough trains in both directions so is not regarded as a passenger call by the online systems. Will presumably be corrected in due course along with other errors.

Many thanks for that information. I’ll wait a couple a days and take another look then, but I’m glad there are Scarborough services. It is my local line.

Small amounts of change on South Western.

Monday to Friday and Saturday the xx30 Waterloo to Portsmouths are accelerated by around 5-6 minutes. Money to Friday the missing from pattern 21.15 and 22.15 Waterloo to Haslemere services run with the 21.30 and 22.30 Waterloo to Portsmouth services no longer calling at Farncombe. Worplesdon gets and hourly service on the Waterloo to Guildford stopping service.

Some extra Reading services operate on Monday to Friday’s at 15.05 and 15.35 from Waterloo and 08.24 from Reading along with a new earlier 05.39 Ascot to Waterloo service. Windsor has an additional 17.24 Waterloo to Windsor via Hounslow (similar to the 18:24) Longcross gets half-hourly calls Monday to Saturdays and hourly on Sundays.

Poole on Sundays has an additional 16.18 super-fast to Waterloo (matching the current 18.18) and a new 22.35 semi-fast back from London.

On the diesels Overton and Grateley finally get their hourly Sunday service with these stops along with Whitchurch moving into the hourly Reading service (although as now in the afternoons this goes to Waterloo) with the Exeter’s being sped up in both directions.

On the Suburban side via Wimbledon seems to be some extra services filling gaps on the evenings with trains like the Surbiton to Hampton Court shuttles running to/from Waterloo.

HamworthyGoods said:

On the diesels Overton and Grateley finally get their hourly Sunday service with these stops along with Whitchurch moving into the hourly Reading service (although as now in the afternoons this goes to Waterloo) with the Exeter’s being sped up in both directions.

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Woohoo!

Although it does mean the XX:45 Andover Fasts are no-longer

Kite159 said:

Woohoo!

Although it does mean the XX:45 Andover Fasts are no-longer

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Indeed the Andover fasts come to an end to allow the speed up of the Exeters, fast is a bit of a loose statement as they have pretty appalling paths!

HamworthyGoods said:

Indeed the Andover fasts come to an end to allow the speed up of the Exeters, fast is a bit of a loose statement as they have pretty appalling paths!

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I know, normally they end up waiting outside Woking for a service from Staines to go into the bay and normally sit outside Basingstoke for the previous Weymouth to clear the platform. But useful if wanting to get back to Andover/Salisbury as they tend to be quieter than the Exeter services (and I suspect some guards like working them as after a ticket check after Clapham there is normally not a lot to do until Andover).

Have TfW really made the abysmal Sunday service on the Marches even worse? Looking at Church Stretton, there's now a four-hour gap in northbound trains from 1029 to 1433, with the current 1233 having disappeared: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CTT/2020/01/12/0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt

Doctor Fegg said:

Have TfW really made the abysmal Sunday service on the Marches even worse? Looking at Church Stretton, there's now a four-hour gap in northbound trains from 1029 to 1433, with the current 1233 having disappeared: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CTT/2020/01/12/0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt

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The fact that the train isn't in the timetable at all would suggest that like many other operators, there's still gaps in the data and it'll correct itself in time.

Just picked up these December 2019 changes for the SWR Salisbury - Yeovil - Exeter services on RTT:

Mondays to Fridays, from what I can see:
- 0619 HON - WAT (0747 from SAL) now starts from EXD at 0530. The 0510 EXD - WAT continues to run.
- 2300 EXD - SAL now runs slightly later as the 2327 EXD - YVJ. Subsequent ECS (5L92).
- 2120 WAT - YVJ is extended to EXD, arr. 0042. This train berths overnight at Exeter NY for 0530 EXD-WAT the following morning.
- 2220 WAT - GIL departs SAL 5 minutes later at 2358 and extends to YVJ, arr. 0038.
- 0511 YVJ - WAT now departs slightly later at 0514: arrives as 5L91 (as at present) but from Yeovil Jcn Down Sidings not Salisbury East CHS.
- 0720 YVJ - WAT is revised to start from YVP at 0711.
- 2130 YVP - YVJ is withdrawn. Timing slot replaced by ECS instead (5V30 YVP - CLC to form 2141 CLC - SAL via. WSB)
- 1958 SAL - CLC via. WSB now works ECS to Salisbury after arriving at CLC at 2059. Used to form 2141 CLC - SAL via. WSB as a return trip.

Saturdays:
- 0619 HON - WAT (0747 from SAL) now starts from EXD at 0530. The 0510 EXD - WAT continues to run.

Sundays:
- 1312 RDG - SAL continues to YVP, arr. 1521.
- 1621 GIL - WAT now starts from YVP at 1543
- 1745 WAT - SAL is extended SAL - YVP, arriving at 2038.

Also it seems that SWR will be storing units at Yeovil Junction instead of doing dead miles back to Salisbury. ECS moves between Yeovil Junction DS and Yeovil Junction, together with arrival times into the sidings at Yeovil Junction:

Mondays to Fridays:
5L92, arr. 0041 from Yeovil Junction (Tuesday - Saturday mornings only)
5L73, arr. 0048 from Yeovil Junction (Monday mornings only)
5L91, dep. 0456 to Yeovil Junction
5L47, arr. 1825 from Yeovil Junction
5L94, arr. 1929 from Axminster: departs for Salisbury T&RSMD at 1954.
5V28, arr. 2054 from Yeovil Junction.
5L62, arr. 2153 from Yeovil Junction: departs for Salisbury T&RSMD at 2159.

Saturdays:
5L92, arr. 0041 from Yeovil Junction
5L73, arr. 0048 from Yeovil Junction
5L93, dep. 0521 to Axminster.
5L96, arr. 2354 from Yeovil Junction.

Sundays:
5L66, arr. 0005 from Honiton
5L05, dep. 0712 to Yeovil Junction
5L28, dep. 0812 to Yeovil Junction

Abbreviations:
RDG: Reading | EXD: Exeter St. Davids | SAL: Salisbury | WAT: London Waterloo | YVJ: Yeovil Junction
YVP: Yeovil Pen Mill | CLC: Castle Cary | GIL: Gillingham (Dorset) | WSB: Westbury (Wiltshire) | HON: Honiton

HTIOI,
Dave

HamworthyGoods said:

Small amounts of change on South Western.

Monday to Friday and Saturday the xx30 Waterloo to Portsmouths are accelerated by around 5-6 minutes. Money to Friday the missing from pattern 21.15 and 22.15 Waterloo to Haslemere services run with the 21.30 and 22.30 Waterloo to Portsmouth services no longer calling at Farncombe. Worplesdon gets and hourly service on the Waterloo to Guildford stopping service.

Some extra Reading services operate on Monday to Friday’s at 15.05 and 15.35 from Waterloo and 08.24 from Reading along with a new earlier 05.39 Ascot to Waterloo service. Windsor has an additional 17.24 Waterloo to Windsor via Hounslow (similar to the 18:24) Longcross gets half-hourly calls Monday to Saturdays and hourly on Sundays.

Poole on Sundays has an additional 16.18 super-fast to Waterloo (matching the current 18.18) and a new 22.35 semi-fast back from London.

On the diesels Overton and Grateley finally get their hourly Sunday service with these stops along with Whitchurch moving into the hourly Reading service (although as now in the afternoons this goes to Waterloo) with the Exeter’s being sped up in both directions.

On the Suburban side via Wimbledon seems to be some extra services filling gaps on the evenings with trains like the Surbiton to Hampton Court shuttles running to/from Waterloo.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the updates.

Great news about the 21:15 and 22:15 as that means Clapham Junction will have direct fast services to Guildford and beyond at 21;22 and 22;22. To be fair people can currently get the x27 and change at Woking for a connecting service. It's only 4 minutes slower to Guildford doing that than the direct.

Is the shuffle service to Guildford, stopping at Worpolesdon, just the late evening trains?

Good news about the Hampton Court services running to Waterloo.

Do you know if they might be any possbility of the morning Effingham Junction to Waterloo services running to and from Guildford? I know they plugged the evening gaps in May 2019 timetable change.

Don't see much changes to scotrail services in my area

The 0553 dundee to glasgow runs 10mins earlier and misses most of the stops from stirling
The 0749 arbroath to Edinburgh now runs to glasgow (0829 dundee to Edinburgh reinstated)
Aberdeen to inverurie looks like it gets an half hourly service during the day

It appears that the SouthEastern schedules were re-uploaded during last week, so are once again visible in the Open Data Feed displays.

The Southeastern consultation document can be found on this page, nothing ambitious (as expected) no sign of the 4 trains an hour Orp - Vic being reinstated

News story
https://newsroom.southeasternrailwa...d-changes-to-the-timetable-from-december-2019

Consultation document
https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/download/ad844f5857474d919266d9c583535522