Perhaps you would connect to the free WiFi on board first.
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Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR
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Perhaps you would connect to the free WiFi on board first.
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R
RailUK Forums
I think you should go back and re read what is being said by people your reply makes no sense.
That depends on whether someone is actually operating it or not as is often the case.
You do love your Quangos Jimm. Most people knows about those lines anyway. They were already here and not the work of Quango freeloaders. You are correct that numbers have increased but also that the months of usage has probably increased because the now extended holiday periods which have now become the norm.
I don`t disagree. Of course there are times when 640 seat trains are unnecessary. I have said in the past that more 9/10 car IET`s should be travelling to Penzance given how busy Cornwall gets in the mornings MOST months of the year and not 9 months as you have said in the past, and as you rightly point out the expanded services west of Plymouth should alleviate some of the crowding but then who wants to change at Plymouth if they`re heading to London as a 5 car set may be rammed.
Objective fact. I think you`ll find that is an oxymoron.
Why. Please explain why I`m wrong?
Again, please explain what you are trying to say?
You seem very angry at my post but are offering no rational explanation. This makes no sense at all.
Surely subjective fact would be more of an oxymoron?
It's 2019 and Beeching is still keeping poor old Cornwall down?
Please, explain where rail capacity growth comes from if not from the DfT and the incumbent TOC?
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Or as with some Apps the GPS helps to identify where you are, or what branch of a pub chain you are in.
Not saying an App would be easy but those with the right skills in creating Apps could come up with something plausible.
It's crazy that in the old days of BR on-train Buffets (80's and 90's) that you could get an array of hot food such as Burgers and Hot Dogs but not today.
HamworthyGoods
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Annual Journeys by rail London to Cornwall (in 2017)
Winter months c55k
Summer months c87k
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Indeed, my mistake but it is subjective fact that relates to IET seats surely as it`s only a matter of opinion.
Pointless comment.
Again, what point are you trying to make? This was Jimms point, not mine.
Yes, sorry my original comment was sarcastic.
RUK, how long do you think it will take for the railway community to get over him?
Firstly, there is no way jimm would say something like that!
Secondly, he actually said the opposite;
Thirdly, I'm not trying to make a point myself, just highlight the ridiculousness of what you said; that rail improvements in Cornwall somehow happened without either GWR or the DfT wanting it so.
This is known as progress. Back in the good old days one could simply walk to the buffet and buy a hot snack, or other items as desired.
But these days it cant be done, or not least Not on GWR, without some possible future complexity involving smart phones, apps, Wi-Fi, and GPS.
I have little faith in anything involving GPS or an internet signal working on a GWR train. Have we not been told that the often unreliable seat reservation system and the often wrong on board PIS are due to lack of internet connectivity or GPS signal.
I doubt that GPS can tell the difference between two trains next to each other but about to depart in different directions.
Yes indeed, it can't. That's why I suggest using the WiFi on board the train that is linked to a headcode.
It seems like the "good old days" are over. I don't want them back.
You tell it.
Does the WiFi on trains ever work? Hilariously, Virgin want you to pay for it, like it’s 2004!
Mintona
Established Member
What do you tell it? You’re on the 13.56? Or 1A19? How do you specify?
It wouldn't necessarily need to connect to the internet, which is the hardest part of on train WiFi, just a hypothetical on train server.
Mountain Man
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No they don't. WiFi is free in both standard and first on Virgin
I'm not an App expert but there must be some way of telling the App what train you are on.
Either you select from a list of Trains (e.g 16:00 from Paddington to Swindon), by manually typing in a start and end destination and time. Or each train is assigned a code that needs to be typed into the App (e.g Train 2345). Obviously various methods would be tested on a select sample before going public.
The App itself could be used on train wi-fi, or mobile network. If you rely on it just being available through train wi-fi, you will find an awful lot of people will forget to switch it on.
The basic workflow would be as such:
Select Items > Enter coach and seat number > Enter Train code > Payment > Order confirmation + order code > Short wait > Enjoy your purchases
Alternatively
The on-board refreshments assistant would have a handheld device for sending orders through to the kitchen area for preparation. You would simply order and pay for what you want through them. Items would be delivered by another staff member when ready. However this would require some kind of menus being available for customers to browse beforehand.
People need to accept the days of the buffet counter are over on GWR and won't be coming back. Not saying this is right or wrong decision by GWR, however that is how it now is. Therefore viable alternatives are required.
As it currently stands it a huge waste to have fully fitted out kitchens standing idle for 95% of the time on each Class 800. Preparing Coffee and Biscuits for 1st Class passengers and the odd times that train may have a Pullman service on-board is hardly efficient usage of them.
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Mintona
Established Member
I’d you’re on the 16.00 from Paddington but you’re travelling from Didcot to Bath how do you know which train you’re on?
Goldfish62
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If you're trying to prove a point, presumably that five coaches are sufficient on all trains in the winter, then you're failing to take into account the differing spread of demand through the day and by day of the week. Morning up and afternoon down trains are generally heavily loaded in Cornwall whatever time of year, plus much of the additional Summer demand is on Saturdays, eg to Newquay.
9 or 10 are needed on certain trains in Cornwall throughout the year, unless anyone considers that standing regularly between Truro and Paddington is acceptable. Mind you, I'm waiting for someone to now say that there's nothing wrong with standing for that distance...
You don’t need to, the app automatically connects to the on train WiFi and sends your order to the kitchen, no connection to the internet or anything else required.
I don't know what the solution overall would be, however as I've already said Buffet counters are not coming back. No amount of protesting/petitions will change that.
There is no way that precious (much needed) seating will be removed for a buffet counter - as that will attract complaints too.
There is no way that precious (much needed) seating will be removed for a buffet counter - as that will attract complaints too.
Mountain Man
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You'll be on the xx:xx from Didcot.
Furthermore WiFi is smart enough to know what the hotspot is.
GWR certainly seem very determined not to allow buffets. However a future operator might be better in this regard.
And as for all the anti buffet arguments, buffets do seem to be successfully provided by other operators, so if one of those operators were to take over GWR services, then they might see things differently.
I am not convinced that it was the department for transport that prohibited buffets on GWR, but not elsewhere. If however it WAS the DFT, then a change of franchise would be a good opportunity to reverse the decision without ever admitting that it was wrong.
"GWR chose not to provide buffets, however in the franchise competition we have listened to customer concerns about this, and the new operator will be operating buffets"
What about XC? Didn't many of their trains used to have buffet counters but were subsequently removed?
I'm not doubting what you claim but I do find it surprising that it might lose money. Surely the ingredients for the food aren't that expensive, and the overheads of the train itself running are already covered, unlike in a restaurant where you have heat, lights, rates etc. And the food ain't cheap. Fair enough there's staffing costs but you'd need first class hosts for any sort of warm offering anyway.
Trouble with this app idea is everything has to work everytime. Technology failure is going to be a big problem, just as when it fails on Voyagers and there's no seat reservations and they look daft. Also, it still doesn't solve the problem of when a train is standing room with heavy luggage and the staff aren't able to comfortably or safely walk down with hot food and drink orders. I get some people are saying collect it, however without a counter you could end up with a queue in a vestibule.
Or, these customers collecting start standing around in first near the kitchen.
If too many orders went in at once how would the kitchen cope? Some people might be getting off at Reading and not be able to wait long. Breakdown would then look silly. Once you setup the counter where orders are put down for collection you may as well have a buffet.
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Clarence Yard
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As someone who has been involved with the West IEP almost from the beginning, who was involved in the EC bid where some changes were allowed and the entire GWR DA2 cl.802 procurement process, I can assure you that it was the DfT who decided the interior design on the cl.800 sets (before that "consultation"), who let bidders for EC do minor adjustments to their IEP design (which raised more than a few eyebrows at FG) and who were all over the cl.802 interior design before authorizing the build, so as to ensure it didn't show up their product.
I'm not sure that the DfT currently think there is anything wrong with their decisions. They are fixated on seat numbers into conurbations, almost to the exclusion of everything else.
No new lines though are there? Yes, we have new trains with better capacity and a greater frequency which to be fair is a good thing but not really growth as people would have still used the trains anyway. You, however talk as if they invented the network. It`s still the same railway with a few minor modifications. Nothing ridiculous in that. Hardly growth, more like a few long overdue improvements. Please give examples of improvements other than the ones I have stated.
There are several 9 and 10 car London trains into and out of Cornwall of a day. This isn’t changing in December.
Can I ask, is the current kitchen built into part of the train which couldn't have been used for accomodation due to safety regulations?
If so fair dues. If not, why didn't they do the obvious thing and situate the kitchen between first and standard with a narrow corridor down the side and a collection point for food?
Clarence Yard
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The "kitchen at the end" design certainly has it's supporters and came in with the passenger free "crumple zone" fashion but I don't think it was mandatory here because the other end has seats right up to and including the kitchen area at the other end.
I suspect it came down to personal choice by the specifier and the cost of providing a heavy-ish catering vehicle in the middle of the train.
My personal preference is always to have the caterer between the two classes. If you are a trolley operator it is far easier to work five or six cars max away from your base rather than having to work the full nine cars. You can also have at least one full first, which is far easier to host and supply with food/drink.
I suspect it came down to personal choice by the specifier and the cost of providing a heavy-ish catering vehicle in the middle of the train.
My personal preference is always to have the caterer between the two classes. If you are a trolley operator it is far easier to work five or six cars max away from your base rather than having to work the full nine cars. You can also have at least one full first, which is far easier to host and supply with food/drink.
I think I'll leave it to Bald Rick to tell us what new lines have any hope at all of succeeding in Cornwall.....
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swt_passenger
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The “crumple zone” rules that prevented passenger accommodation in the leading few metres behind the cab (on 125 mph trains) affected new builds around the time Voyagers and Pendolinos were new, but were superseded within a few years. The rules that now exist are not expressed in terms of a ban over a certain distance.
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