Island Line Railway - current state and the future

Xenophon PCDGS · 7 Aug 2019

Chris125 said:
That rather depends on where you live, where your going, how much money you have to pay and how quickly you want to get there.

Though relatively comprehensive and frequent on the core routes, fares are expensive while Island roads and ever increasing road congestion make them slow and somewhat unreliable.

The island coverage of Southern Vectis routes makes allowance for those people who already have cars for both business and daily travel to work travel. It is a commercial organisation who sets its fares, not a charitable organisation.

I note you mention how quickly you want to get there and the island has quite a number of taxi firms.

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30907 · 7 Aug 2019

A0wen said:
The Cowes line was on the east side of the Medina estuary, whereas the IoWSR comes in from the west side - no chance of the IoWSR getting to Cowes.

Afraid you've mixed east and west up.

61653 HTAFC · 7 Aug 2019

Mark J said:
Surely the cheapest option would be to get a fleet of Parry People Movers onto the Island Line.

Something like this

or

At the same time upgrading the bullhead track on wooden sleepers with continuously welded track on concrete sleepers and removing the third rail.

In addition the Island Line needs some way of getting back into Newport, Cowes and Ventnor to cover all the main population areas of the island.

The only way now would be via Light Rail units that could also do Street running.

The Bembridge branch could be easily re-opened with a single PPM on single track.

Aaargh! 141 Flashback! o_O

Chris125 · 7 Aug 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
It is a commercial organisation who sets its fares, not a charitable organisation.

I didn't suggest otherwise?

I note you mention how quickly you want to get there and the island has quite a number of taxi firms.

What have taxis got to do with anything? I said local roads made the bus service slow and relatively unreliable, hardly a controversial statement and especially true at this time of year - that's not a criticism of Southern Vectis per se but the inherent drawback of using a congested road network that's only getting busier.

reddragon · 8 Aug 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
The island coverage of Southern Vectis routes makes allowance for those people who already have cars for both business and daily travel to work travel. It is a commercial organisation who sets its fares, not a charitable organisation.

I note you mention how quickly you want to get there and the island has quite a number of taxi firms.

Paul, Are you trying to say that you'd rather see the line close than use the class 230 that you hate?

A0wen · 8 Aug 2019

30907 said:
Afraid you've mixed east and west up.

Quite correct - mea culpa. Wasn't thinking straight when I posted. Notwithstanding the point is valid in that the Cowes line went up the opposite side of the estuary to the side the line from Ryde came into Newport - and with the development in the intervening years the chance of getting the IoWSR to Cowes is zero.

Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Aug 2019

reddragon said:
Paul, Are you trying to say that you'd rather see the line close than use the class 230 that you hate?

Not at all, Just let the short railway line continue, without any extension to its line system, but noting the vast geographical part of the island that has settlements is quite well served by Southern Vectis.

I let the mini-fleet of Class 230 units performance on its only line speak for itself.

A0wen · 8 Aug 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Not at all, Just let the short railway line continue, without any extension to its line system, but noting the vast geographical part of the island that has settlements is quite well served by Southern Vectis.

I let the mini-fleet of Class 230 units performance on its only line speak for itself.

The 230s seem to be settling down - a few failures but then the 150 / 153 combo weren't exactly paragons of virtue.

Lets see how the 230s look after 12 months - all new stock starts low on the reliability and them improves, nothing has worked 'out the box' without problems so it would be unfair to expect the 230s to.

They'd be a good upgrade for the Island Line - a line which will never justify brand new rolling stock.

pompeyfan · 8 Aug 2019

A0wen said:
The 230s seem to be settling down - a few failures but then the 150 / 153 combo weren't exactly paragons of virtue.

Lets see how the 230s look after 12 months - all new stock starts low on the reliability and them improves, nothing has worked 'out the box' without problems so it would be unfair to expect the 230s to.

They'd be a good upgrade for the Island Line - a line which will never justify brand new rolling stock.

I’d like to see them fitted with suitable bike spaces and also the new ‘bio toilets’ that the SWR aventura units are expected to happen. I know that then means depot investment with CET equipment. 3 x 3 car units, half a coach for bikes. A universal toilet and decent PRM area.

A0wen · 8 Aug 2019

pompeyfan said:
I’d like to see them fitted with suitable bike spaces and also the new ‘bio toilets’ that the SWR aventura units are expected to happen. I know that then means depot investment with CET equipment. 3 x 3 car units, half a coach for bikes. A universal toilet and decent PRM area.

Bike / pushchair spaces are almost a cert - which is something the current stock struggles with.

I see no justification for adding toilets though - the journey is 8.5 miles and takes 23 minutes. There are toilets at most of the stations as well. There are plenty of journeys on the mainland which are longer and don't justify toilets on the train - particularly inner suburban routes around London.

reddragon · 8 Aug 2019

pompeyfan said:
I’d like to see them fitted with suitable bike spaces and also the new ‘bio toilets’ that the SWR aventura units are expected to happen. I know that then means depot investment with CET equipment. 3 x 3 car units, half a coach for bikes. A universal toilet and decent PRM area.

Buffet car too!

pompeyfan · 8 Aug 2019

A0wen said:
Bike / pushchair spaces are almost a cert - which is something the current stock struggles with.

I see no justification for adding toilets though - the journey is 8.5 miles and takes 23 minutes. There are toilets at most of the stations as well. There are plenty of journeys on the mainland which are longer and don't justify toilets on the train - particularly inner suburban routes around London.

I think toilets are only open when manned. If you just miss the 38 departure from shanklin and the station is not manned, you realistically have to wait an hour to go on the fastcat. The bio toilets are meant to require less tanking, only need to be emptied once every 45 days on intensive used toilets.

Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Aug 2019

pompeyfan said:
I think toilets are only open when manned. If you just miss the 38 departure from shanklin and the station is not manned, you realistically have to wait an hour to go on the fastcat. The bio toilets are meant to require less tanking, only need to be emptied once every 45 days on intensive used toilets.

The better quality department stores and supermarkets all seem to offer toilet facilities.

Mark J · 8 Aug 2019

Close the whole route down and turn it into a guided busway.

(Only joking by the way!) However some would love that to happen if they had the chance!

Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Aug 2019

Mark J said:
Close the whole route down and turn it into a guided busway.

(Only joking by the way!) However some would love that to happen if they had the chance!

The year-by-year annual passenger use of the Leigh Guided Busway using modern double-deck buses has exceeded the original expectations.

Chris125 · 8 Aug 2019

Mark J said:
(Only joking by the way!) However some would love that to happen if they had the chance!

Ain't that the truth!

A0wen · 8 Aug 2019

pompeyfan said:
I think toilets are only open when manned. If you just miss the 38 departure from shanklin and the station is not manned, you realistically have to wait an hour to go on the fastcat. The bio toilets are meant to require less tanking, only need to be emptied once every 45 days on intensive used toilets.

Well, if you've just missed the train at Shanklin, you'll be waiting until the next one comes in (between 20 and 40 mins later) and presumably the station toilets will be opened during the turnaround of that service - so you won't be waiting until the Fastcat at all - you'll be waiting until the next train comes into Shanklin and presumably you'll be a bit more focused and not miss it.

Alternatively there's a large Co-op store about 5 minute walk away and that may also have toilets - which since you'd be waiting at least 20 mins means that's no problem.

Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Aug 2019

Male understanding of waiting time at toilets, according to what my good lady wife used to constantly remind me, is far removed in reality from the time women have to endure in such a situation.

pompeyfan · 8 Aug 2019

A0wen said:
Well, if you've just missed the train at Shanklin, you'll be waiting until the next one comes in (between 20 and 40 mins later) and presumably the station toilets will be opened during the turnaround of that service - so you won't be waiting until the Fastcat at all - you'll be waiting until the next train comes into Shanklin and presumably you'll be a bit more focused and not miss it.

Alternatively there's a large Co-op store about 5 minute walk away and that may also have toilets - which since you'd be waiting at least 20 mins means that's no problem.

Think you’ve missed the point. Toilets are only open at the station while the booking hall is manned. After 2 (I think, possibly earlier) there’s no available toilets on the route until the fast cat (if you’re coming back to the mainland, there’s public toilets at Esplanade about a 2 minute walk away) the trains depart shanklin at xx:18 and xx:38, so if you miss the 38 minutes past you’d then have to walk back to shanklin to relieve yourself but many would think to look for a supermarket.

philthetube · 8 Aug 2019

Interesting argument, is the same to be expected of all buses on any service frequency of over 30 mins?

pompeyfan · 8 Aug 2019

philthetube said:
Interesting argument, is the same to be expected of all buses on any service frequency of over 30 mins?

Fair point, I suppose you’d expect a toilet on a 2hr Nat Ex coach ride but would expect one on a 30 minute bus journey. However, here’s a novel thought. Why don’t SWR try and exceed expectations and provide more than what’s expected?

Fawkes Cat · 8 Aug 2019

pompeyfan said:
However, here’s a novel thought. Why don’t SWR try and exceed expectations and provide more than what’s expected?

Cost.

yorksrob · 8 Aug 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
The year-by-year annual passenger use of the Leigh Guided Busway using modern double-deck buses has exceeded the original expectations.

That's quite impressive, bearing in mind it seems to take around an hour to get from Atherton to the centre of Manchester on it.

pompeyfan · 8 Aug 2019

Fawkes Cat said:
Cost.

Would be minimal surely? 3x universal toilets, and suitable tanking arrangements.

Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Aug 2019

yorksrob said:
That's quite impressive, bearing in mind it seems to take around an hour to get from Atherton to the centre of Manchester on it.

It only takes about 30 minutes from Leigh bus station to Salford Crescent railway station thanks to the guided busway and the bus-only lanes on the East Lancashire Road and the route now runs through the centre of Manchester, past the University, up to Manchester Royal Infirmary.

Fawkes Cat · 8 Aug 2019

pompeyfan said:
Would be minimal surely? 3x universal toilets, and suitable tanking arrangements.

But 'minimal' is greater than 'none'. And I'm guessing that toilets will neither empty nor maintain themselves, so there will be an ongoing revenue cost to keep the toilets in order.

From this thread, my understanding is that the Island Line runs at a substantial loss. So there's an incentive not to spend any more money than absolutely necessary.

In some cases, I can see that investment will lead to increased revenue. But it seems to me that the Ryde - Shanklin travel market is finite, and putting toilets on the trains is unlikely to drive use up sufficiently to cover the extra costs incurred.

yorksrob · 8 Aug 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
It only takes about 30 minutes from Leigh bus station to Salford Crescent railway station thanks to the guided busway and the bus-only lanes on the East Lancashire Road and the route now runs through the centre of Manchester, past the University, up to Manchester Royal Infirmary.

I wasn't overwhelmed by the timetable when I considered it during the rail strike.

pompeyfan · 8 Aug 2019

Fawkes Cat said:
But 'minimal' is greater than 'none'. And I'm guessing that toilets will neither empty nor maintain themselves, so there will be an ongoing revenue cost to keep the toilets in order.

From this thread, my understanding is that the Island Line runs at a substantial loss. So there's an incentive not to spend any more money than absolutely necessary.

In some cases, I can see that investment will lead to increased revenue. But it seems to me that the Ryde - Shanklin travel market is finite, and putting toilets on the trains is unlikely to drive use up sufficiently to cover the extra costs incurred.

Sadly I think you’re correct. It was more of a want/would like to see than an actual expectation.

Rick1984 · 8 Aug 2019

A0wen said:
Alternatively there's a large Co-op store about 5 minute walk away and that may also have toilets - which since you'd be waiting at least 20 mins means that's no problem.

The Co-op doesn't have toilets. There is a portaloo nearby, decent as these go but charges you.
Other option is a rough pub or maybe a Café

Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Aug 2019

yorksrob said:
I wasn't overwhelmed by the timetable when I considered it during the rail strike.

The guided busway service ran during the rail strike ... the rail services did not. In cases such as this, what is the more important?

Island Line Railway - current state and the future

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