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Understanding EMT's crew diagrams

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bb21

bb21

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Chancing across some crew diagram fun recently when figuring something out on TRUST for EMT, one thing that I couldn't quite work out is that there were separate diagrams for "Driver", "Conductor", and "Trainman". Now while the meaning of the first two were clear to me, my (possibly misguided) understanding of the latter is that it also means the guard, while common sense dictates to me that it is more likely something related to either the First Class host or possibly the trolley attendant?

Is anyone more clued up able to provide any clarification or confirmation for me please? Thanks for any help.
 
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I wonder if Conductor and Trainman are both guards. The current RMT strike action is about Guards being on different T & C. I would assume you would need the two different titles so you would know which guard could cover which turn.
 
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bunnahabhain

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bb21 said:
Chancing across some crew diagram fun recently when figuring something out on TRUST for EMT, one thing that I couldn't quite work out is that there were separate diagrams for "Driver", "Conductor", and "Trainman". Now while the meaning of the first two were clear to me, my (possibly misguided) understanding of the latter is that it also means the guard, while common sense dictates to me that it is more likely something related to either the First Class host or possibly the trolley attendant?

Is anyone more clued up able to provide any clarification or confirmation for me please? Thanks for any help.
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Have you got any numbers for the diagrams? That might provide a clue for you.

For example Nottingham Local Guards diagrams are NM4## and for Drivers NM2##, for Train Managers NZ4## and for Customer Hosts NZ6##, numbers do change for Saturday Only, Sunday Only, Amended (add 1000) and Special diagrams (3000 or 4000 ranges for Guards)
 
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class 9

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As TRUST isn’t a new system, these terms date back to BR days.
As some have previously said a Trainman is indeed a Guard (a freight guard)
The trainman grade was introduced in 1988, they could cover guard or 2nd man duties. (Engineering trains still had a 2nd man & guard up until the early 90s)
 
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tony6499

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class 9 said:
As TRUST isn’t a new system, these terms date back to BR days.
As some have previously said a Trainman is indeed a Guard (a freight guard)
The trainman grade was introduced in 1988, they could cover guard or 2nd man duties. (Engineering trains still had a 2nd man & guard up until the early 90s)
Click to expand...

Trainman D was the old second man duties and Trainman G was the old freight/non passenger trains duties
 
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class 9

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Sorry but you’re not correct, the terms D & G were only references to line of promotion. D went onto Driving(you did the psychometric drivers assessment before) and G went onto the Conductor grade.
I was a ‘D’ and did everything 2nd manning, freight Guard and also Passenger Guard, as we were trained on passenger stock/units, needless to say we weren’t ticket trained.
 
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tony6499

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class 9 said:
Sorry but you’re not correct, the terms D & G were only references to line of promotion. D went onto Driving(you did the psychometric drivers assessment before) and G went onto the Conductor grade.
I was a ‘D’ and did everything 2nd manning, freight Guard and also Passenger Guard, as we were trained on passenger stock/units, needless to say we weren’t ticket trained.
Click to expand...

You're not correct either, on Southern in 1988 if you were a Guard and were deemed not suitable for a Conductors role, you were a Trainman G and if you were a Secondman you were a Trainman D, some remained as these for years especially the G's who didn't want to be Conductors or Drivers. The diagrams and roster for D's and G's were totally separate although you could cover work if you were spare or wanted to do overtime.
You were meant to be competent for each role but many weren't so G's did Guards work and D's did Secondman's work
 
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