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Flooding at Winchburgh (07/08): looks like a canal tunnel

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PaxVobiscum

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Maybe I’ve missed it (in which case please delete) but I haven’t noticed anything about the flooding tonight which has closed the E & G. Trains are returning to Edinburgh after being stuck and some quite impressive pictures on Twitter: https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1159210605150113792?s=12
4E14E8A8-0903-4D25-80A3-220A4C78591E.jpeg

FC96B04C-44F5-4B77-B7EB-95E04730650E.jpeg

Video and other pics linked here:
https://t.co/atOuxORgnj?

Now on BBC News
Disruption as torrential rain causes flooding across Scotland https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-49263508
 
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farci

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I recall discussion during the EGIP build of the possibility of a 'Dalmeny Chord' diversion route. Would that have prevented the disruption caused by the closure of Winchburgh?
 

InOban

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But not, I think, to the same extent.
The problem at Winchburgh is that the tunnel and the cutting to the West are alongside and below a loch and I think, the canal. Everything overflows into the railway as fast as they pump it out
Fortunately it's slab track, and the signalling is raised up the tunnel wall.
 

PaxVobiscum

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I happened to be driving south across the Third Bridge yesterday (just after the inundation as I found out later) and couldn’t understand why the traffic was tailed back for miles and only crawling on the M90. The Newbridge underpass wasn’t flooded but the M8 east slip road off the M9 was closed by then and bits of the M8 west hard shoulder were under water.
 
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But not, I think, to the same extent.
The problem at Winchburgh is that the tunnel and the cutting to the West are alongside and below a loch and I think, the canal. Everything overflows into the railway as fast as they pump it out
Fortunately it's slab track, and the signalling is raised up the tunnel wall.

This is the problem as you say Oban. Pretty amazing video of the flood on ScotRail's twitter feed: https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/1159212433468252160

Huge disruption this morning, all E&G mainline trains starting and terminating at Linlithgow.

With the works carried out to lower the track in order to install overhead lines , was adequate drainage properly considered? Last night's rain was particularly heavy, but this seems to be an obvious accident waiting to happen?
 

PaxVobiscum

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Apologies - fixed the silly title a bit now - couldn't edit the title from my phone. Easy on a desktop. Gave me a speculative idea though – 25KV canal barges anyone? (not sure about the return path mind you :lol:)
 
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Highlandspring

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With the works carried out to lower the track in order to install overhead lines , was adequate drainage properly considered? Last night's rain was particularly heavy, but this seems to be an obvious accident waiting to happen?
Extensive drainage work was carried out. The rainfall yesterday was extraordinary in its intensity and volume over a short time.
 

hexagon789

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Maybe I’ve missed it (in which case please delete) but I haven’t noticed anything about the flooding tonight which has closed the E & G. Trains are returning to Edinburgh after being stuck and some quite impressive pictures on Twitter: https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1159210605150113792?s=12
View attachment 66841

View attachment 66833

Video and other pics linked here:
https://t.co/atOuxORgnj?

Now on BBC News

About 2 feet deep according to NR, just as well there are a number of alternative routes available for Edinburgh-Glasgow passengers.

I'm guessing the Highland Chieftain went via Ladybank as it seems to have still run.

Best of luck to Network Rail to get the water pumped away and the line repaired, can't be an easy task with the surrounding area waterlogged.
 

GusB

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About 2 feet deep according to NR, just as well there are a number of alternative routes available for Edinburgh-Glasgow passengers.

I'm guessing the Highland Chieftain went via Ladybank as it seems to have still run.

Best of luck to Network Rail to get the water pumped away and the line repaired, can't be an easy task with the surrounding area waterlogged.
David Simpson (Scotrail Ops Director) has just been interviewed on Radio Scotland, was heard saying that the Fire service has been called in to assist. It was also pointed out that 60% of a month's rainfall came down in the space of a few hours, and that any drainage system would struggle to cope. It's no better on the roads when you get that sheer volume of water falling from the sky in such a short time.
 

PaxVobiscum

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Extensive drainage work was carried out. The rainfall yesterday was extraordinary in its intensity and volume over a short time.
Rail Technology Magazine had an article on the work when it finished 4 years ago, interesting read.

...However, the engineering team experienced a number of challenges once they got into the tunnel where they planned to lower the line by up to 200mm.
“This is where we had to deal with the natural elements. The ground conditions weren’t exactly as we’d expected it in a lot of places,” said [Morgan Sindall’s rail director, Neil] Barnes. “We were going through variable ground. So we had areas of two types of rock. There was dolerite, which is a hard rock, and interspersed within that areas of mudstone.”

He added that over a long period of time the area in and around the tunnel had been heavily quarried, with a naturally-formed lagoon quite close to the site.

“At times that tunnel becomes a river, so we knew it was going to be wet and we knew we were going to have to cut through rock,” said Barnes. The biggest challenge was the variability of the mudstone, which became weaker when water came into contact with it.

“Due to this, in some places we had to over dig to get through poor mudstone to a satisfactory formation, we then had to refill this with additional concrete,” Barnes added.

RTM was told the team excavated 50% more material than expected, and over 2,000 tonnes of foundation concrete was poured during the blockade. Steel dowels were also fixed into the base rock to secure the concrete base slabs of the track bed to the formation.

The team also put a new ‘upsized’ drainage system in the tunnel, installed at invert level next to the base slabs. “The key element is that we have got the water to fall from one end to the other,” said Barnes. “It didn’t before.”
 

hexagon789

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David Simpson (Scotrail Ops Director) has just been interviewed on Radio Scotland, was heard saying that the Fire service has been called in to assist. It was also pointed out that 60% of a month's rainfall came down in the space of a few hours, and that any drainage system would struggle to cope. It's no better on the roads when you get that sheer volume of water falling from the sky in such a short time.

Must be bad if the need additional help from the fire service, but the amount of water as you say is going to be difficult to cope with anyway.

Rail Technology Magazine had an article on the work when it finished 4 years ago, interesting read.

So the trackbed was lowered when they electrified the tunnel?
 

Royston Vasey

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I happened to be driving south across the Third Bridge yesterday (just after the inundation as I found out later) and couldn’t understand why the traffic was tailed back for miles and only crawling on the M90. The Newbridge underpass wasn’t flooded but the M8 east slip road off the M9 was closed by then and bits of the M8 west hard shoulder were under water.
Ah yes the Third Bridge over the Forth to Fife
 
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Really interesting article PV, and thanks Highlandspring for confirming that upgraded drainage was installed.

60% of August's rainfall in a few hours is indeed brutal. Would strengthening/enlarging the lagoon banks be an option to prevent this from happening again? Build up the wall on the north bank?
 

47271

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That's always been a bad spot for flooding on the E&G, I can think of two or three times in the past ten years when it's been shut.

As I recall the 2005 works were supposed to have reduced the risk but, as above, the sorts of bursts of rainfall we're seeing would be pretty difficult to deal with considering the location. I'm ready to stand corrected, but I don't think that this is a case of outdated or poorly maintained infrastructure.
 

philthetube

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But not, I think, to the same extent.
The problem at Winchburgh is that the tunnel and the cutting to the West are alongside and below a loch and I think, the canal. Everything overflows into the railway as fast as they pump it out
Fortunately it's slab track, and the signalling is raised up the tunnel wall.

Credit to be given here, good planning not fortunate.
 

InOban

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Of course. It was a sensible investment as part of EGIP.
I meant fortunately for the public, since it will be possible for services to be restored very quickly, once they get the water out.
 

InOban

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They're hoping that services will run tomorrow. Water level is receding.
 

sng7

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Do LNER drivers sign via Ladybank or were they conducted?
I don't know for certain but there are LNER run as required paths on realtime trains from Craigentinny to Perth and return via the dunfirmline side of the fife circle which are assumumably to keep route knowledge so they can run that way on days like today without a route conductor.
 

hexagon789

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I don't know for certain but there are LNER run as required paths on realtime trains from Craigentinny to Perth and return via the dunfirmline side of the fife circle which are assumumably to keep route knowledge so they can run that way on days like today without a route conductor.

I believe they diverted that way a few years ago iirc, it's certainly sensible to keep knowledge of the route for occasions such as this or booked diversions.
 

John Webb

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Apologies - fixed the silly title a bit now - couldn't edit the title from my phone. Easy on a desktop. Gave me a speculative idea though – 25KV canal barges anyone? (not sure about the return path mind you :lol:)
Harecastle Tunnel on the Trent and Mersey canal had an electric tug from 1914 onwards. Originally battery-powered, from 1920 onwards there was an overhead tramway type wire. The tug hauled itself and attached boats along on a chain attached at each end of the tunnel to the canal bed. I assume this and the water formed the return conductor. The system was in use until 1954, when fans were fitted at one end of the tunnel to allow boats to be propelled by their own engines.
 

edwin_m

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Harecastle Tunnel on the Trent and Mersey canal had an electric tug from 1914 onwards. Originally battery-powered, from 1920 onwards there was an overhead tramway type wire. The tug hauled itself and attached boats along on a chain attached at each end of the tunnel to the canal bed. I assume this and the water formed the return conductor. The system was in use until 1954, when fans were fitted at one end of the tunnel to allow boats to be propelled by their own engines.
There were quite a lot of these in France at one time.
 

route:oxford

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I happened to be driving south across the Third Bridge yesterday (just after the inundation as I found out later) and couldn’t understand why the traffic was tailed back for miles and only crawling on the M90. The Newbridge underpass wasn’t flooded but the M8 east slip road off the M9 was closed by then and bits of the M8 west hard shoulder were under water.

The "Third Bridge"? The "Forth Bridge" was the Fifth bridge.

Stirling, Scottish Central Railway (1848 )
Stirling, Stirling & Dunfermline Railway (1853)
Gartmore, Strathkendrick & Aberfoyle Railway (1882)
Alloa Swing Bridge, Alloa Railway (1885)
Forth Bridge, Forth Bridge Railway (1890)

As for bridges, starting at Loch Ard, I make it that the newest crossing was the 20th non-rail Crossing.
 
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