theageofthetra
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Of course
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SouthEastern franchise direct award through to 1 April 2020 (& franchise competition terminated)
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rdlover777
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i wouldn't mind having the networkers replaced with FLIRT variants should Abello get the franchise in April (unless DfT goes the LNER route)
Class 466
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The competition has been cancelled, therefore neither will get the franchise. It’s heavily implied in press releases that it’ll be some kind of management contract for Govia or OLR. My best guess is that it’ll be OLR as that will be the easiest way to implement any changes from the Williams Review.
rdlover777
Member
who or what is OLR?
Alteran Ancient
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An "Operator of Last Resort", also known as "Going to public ownership."
AlistairCowell
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Franchise extended until 31st March 2020, then it will be OLR.
It seems to me that the Government wants to make an example out of the SE in order to get the TOC operating efficiently. The government is under pressure from both trade unions and passengers alike to go back into public ownership and they hired Keith Williams as an external source to create a document probably implying to keep the railway in private ownership, whilst instilling principals from the British Rail days. The Government are also looking into why TFL runs the tube effectively. Don't be surprised if we begin to hear talk about TFL potentially trying to take over part or all of SE.
TfL can't afford to. SE metro is to big for them to take on given their current finances and other investments they need to make.
greatescape
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Bombardier Transportation Ltd site in Beaver Lane to create 50 new jobs
09 August 2019
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/railway-depot-plans-to-create-50-jobs-210154/
Bombardier's large-scale life extension for Class 465?
09 August 2019
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/railway-depot-plans-to-create-50-jobs-210154/
Whats' this？
Bombardier's large-scale life extension for Class 465?
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Exactly what it states...
Southeastern have basically been kicked out by Thameslink. It's happened at Orpington/Bellingham/Sevenoaks too. A lot of money is being 'invested' into Thameslink at the expense of Southeastern.
With a new chancellor and PM there's no guarantee the current financial settlement will not change in the spending review. If Boris, Shapps and others decide TfL is a good option (and helping to gain votes in SE London / NE Kent where a TfL takeover is popular amongst the population and politicians of all parties) then it'll happen.
Mikey C
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Even if TfL took over the Metro routes, that wouldn't solve the rest of the Southeastern franchise. TfL are broke anyway, so it's not as if they'd suddenly be able to magically improve services and stations
Kettledrum
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The article says Network Rail need to compulsorily purchase the site and the landowner is challenging this. I thought this was a former railway works site too. Was it a works site that was sold off prematurely and Network Rail now realise they need to site back - or is the site needed adjacent to the rail works and therefore needs to be compulsorily purchased?
Abellio wasn't going with Flirts...
James90012
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It's elegant in principle to split out Metro and devolve to TfL, but there are deep interworkings between Metro and long-distance, with the most obvious being conflicting junction movements at places like Lewisham and platforming at London Terminii, never mind the complicated service pattern in particular in the peak. That's not to say a formal split would be impossible but I think it would take at least 2 years to complete, which may be what the DfT / Post-Williams world decides to do starting April 2020.
The Government already know their next moves!!
Bombardier owned it post privatisation (they did overhauls there) and then sold it on 5 years ago. The new owner was presumably hoping to get some non-rail use approved by the council at some point but hasn't done anything with it.
TfL are operating incredibly close to their borrowing limit so no room for manoeuvre there.
The Crossrail delays have destroyed their short term hopes for more income. GW Reading stopper take over in December is the only bit of good financial news they have.
TfL/GLA are picking up the extra Crossrail cost long term and they don't have the money for the Piccadilly line resignalling which means they can't use all of the new trains they have ordered!
The TfL roads network is running into big maintenance issues with a backlog beginning to accumulate.
SE Metro is about 90% of the size of the combined current LO operations and future full Crossrail operations combined. (With the extra stock needed it would move to about 95%...)
The TfL plan (unlike DfT's) appears to be minimal investment in trains in the short /medium term but recast timetables to improve utilisation a bit, but go big on fare collection (gating and enforcement) in a big revenue push. With the original 2016 plans TfL were hoping for a dowry from DfT which just wasn't going to happen.
Splitting would also increase the total cost of the operations vs today.
rdlover777
Member
wait, does this mean the 395s have been evicted from their depot? or is this a different Ashford depot?
Yes I suppose the revenue collection is the big thing. If, as I believe many suspect, there is large amounts of money walking off the trains not being collected then a different approach to revenue collection could raise the money needed, at least in part, for TfL to take over the SE Metro operation. But that of course might just give you enough to cover the operation costs and not necessarily the capital needed to tart up the stations (or install gatelines!).
I can certainly see the advantage of having Metro operations around London within the LO banner but it does seem dicey whether TfL can actually afford to do them justice. The sort of investment seen on the original LO network and on the West Anglia routes which has been so successful in increasing ridership (and therefore presumably raising revenue) can't have been cheap!
Class 466
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Nope, just some 375/377s that currently berth in the sidings adjacent to the Hitachi depot will need somewhere else to berth overnight, nothing more to it than that.
SteveOfTheStow
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I'd argue that LO has done very little for West Anglia (apart from shiny uniforms and some new signage) and WA ridership was already high. They made some things worse, such as communicating service issues. New trains would have come regardless as the 315s were expired.
'Overgrounding' a route isn't a magic wand and won't automatically make things better. The old Silverlink routes, however, we're in total agreement on. Maybe the difference is that TfL had a lot more money 10 years ago, and Silverlink were pretty much the rock bottom so the only way was up for TfL.
I think TfL would be way in over their heads if they tried to take on the Southeastern operation in their present state.
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Mikey C
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The Silverlink routes were different anyway as the Watford line has always had close links with the Underground, while the North London and Goblin are radials and thus significantly different from the London "commuter" routes.
Indeed to me the Overground brand should just have been kept to the orbital routes, as they have a distinct "product", going around London and not terminating in a Zone 1 station.
They've been laying the groundwork for splitting the franchise for years. They wouldn't be starting from scratch with it.
So many here seem to think financial issues today cannot change. A spending review easily can change the game. The DfT is as much a financial messmas TfL right now.
The biggest argument for TfL is that after taking over Abbey Wood there was an immediate 50% increase in counted passenger numbers.
Queue the "but DfT can do that" except they never do.
The biggest argument for TfL is that after taking over Abbey Wood there was an immediate 50% increase in counted passenger numbers.
Queue the "but DfT can do that" except they never do.
DfT have done that in the past - see the Southern starting 10 years ago in the '09-14 franchise. Its cost a lot so have to be done early in franchise so a return on investment can be seen. The Problems is that SE have being on continual direct awards and extensions so does happen, brake that cycle and ...
The sum need to change TfL fortunes are more than bit of spending review largesse, it needs to be a huge annual uplift and not just a small amount of something for 2-3 years. They can't be seen to be bailing TfL out for Crossrail and they also want to do Bakerloo extension and CR2 and well as plenty of smaller schemes.
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