Ash Bridge
Established Member
Definitely agree with you there!
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Onboard Catering - Passenger Poll (buffet/shop vs trolley)
- Thread starter NoOnesFool
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Definitely agree with you there!
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RailUK Forums
This. Oh for a rail company that serves decent coffee. In the absence of this I have given up on on-board catering.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Which TOC is it that's switched its trolleys to quality filter? That's the way to do good coffee on a trolley - forget fancy machines. Make sure it's Yorkshire Tea too (as it is on LNER) and you're sorted. Even better if proper milk is used instead of UHT rubbish.
The objection I have to trolleys is that they are invariably delivered unreliably, either due to not being there at all or being unable to get through due to overcrowding, so on balance I voted buffet.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Agreed. Other products are simply inferior.
I second that having just paid over the odds for something from the XC ‘selection of chilled drinks’ which I estimate had been sat very unchilled since the trolley was loaded at start of play. I miss the counter service with more choice and FRIDGES!!!
I’ve found trolley services so unreliable that I won’t trust that there will be one and now pack some snacks and pick up a coffee a couple of mins before the train arrives. It seems very variable how long staff changes take too, some taking half an hour or more, some managing it in 10 mins.
I used to enjoy my sausage and bacon baguette for breakfast when I travelled on GWR but I suspect it’s shrivelled sarnies and crisps since the introduction of the IET with their trolleys. Haven’t had the chance to travel on them at breakfast time yet so don’t know what’s on offer.
I less than eagerly await what awaits me on my first IET breakfast time journey next week!
I used to enjoy my sausage and bacon baguette for breakfast when I travelled on GWR but I suspect it’s shrivelled sarnies and crisps since the introduction of the IET with their trolleys. Haven’t had the chance to travel on them at breakfast time yet so don’t know what’s on offer.
I less than eagerly await what awaits me on my first IET breakfast time journey next week!
Ash Bridge
Established Member
I'm not sure that's quite correct, as far as I know XC Voyagers and HSTs are fitted with fridges in their catering points and the trolleys are captive and not lifted on and off unlike those operated on regional type trains. I'm happy to be corrected here though.
Tomos y Tanc
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Regional teas are blended to suit the hardness or softness of the local water. Yorkshire Tea, Welsh Tea or Glengettie ar great when brewed with soft water. With hard water they're just pish! TOCs need the right tea for the water they're using... just like steam engines really!
Yorkshire Tea do produce a hard water version but it's really not very nice.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You would be well advised to take your own bacon butty and tea/coffee. I have about a 20% record of a trolley even showing up, let alone having a working boiler.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I live in a very hard water area (though I have an electronic thingy for stopping it sticking to stuff which mostly works) and I like it (regular Yorkshire red, though I also like the gold I think I prefer red). Down to personal taste, I guess. Particularly given that @DarloRich is just down the road!
I think you may be right but my beer was definitely warm! Guess the onboard fridge had died then
Thanks for the advice, will do!
Now then, where’s that thread about the petition to reinstate the GWR buffet?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Dont be silly. Yorkshire tea brews perfectly well in mk which has hard water
Perhaps you simply atent able to deal with the strength
I once had a GWR trolley on Paddington>Penzance pull up next to me, while the tannoy said 'there will be a static trolley service in coach x'. The woman manning the trolley muttered something to the effect that the person on the tannoy was an idiot.
I think another problem with the GWR trolley service on the IETs is that many of the units are two EMUs coupled together... so you can't walk through either way. Sometimes the trolley is just one on side.
If you can't rely on the service being there, or being accessible to you, what's the point? you'll get an M&S sandwich before you get on the train.
Ash Bridge
Established Member
I think you may be right but my beer was definitely warm! Guess the onboard fridge had died then
Ah...quite possibly!
Tomos y Tanc
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Dont be silly. Yorkshire tea brews perfectly well in mk which has hard water
Perhaps you simply atent able to deal with the strength
I drink Glengettie which is stronger!
Seriously, if you think you think Yorkshire Red brews well with hard water why do you think the company bothers to produce a different blend for hard water? There's even a section on the company website that explains it.
CheshireCrusty
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Returning to the original post:
I am afraid I hark back to the days of the Dining Car and being offered reservations for either first or second sitting for lunch or dinner!
However nowadays, do I prefer at seat trolley service or a walk up buffet service?
I am afraid the answer has to be both on longer journeys (say over 1 hour for the average passenger journey on that service).
On a longer journey (say over 90 minutes) I wish to purchase not only a hot hot drink or a cold cold drink but also have the opportunity to have a hot meal dish. If that cannot be served to my seat then I would walk through to a buffet/shop. I much preferred this service on the old Virgin XC Voyagers to the trolley service on similar length journeys on TPE or TfW (now - but previously Alphaline). Although in all cases there seemed little excuse for short forming trains to meet passenger loads (at least Virgin XC used to regularly double up the Voyagers even if catering could only be offered in one section - I have been known on more than one occasion to change sections at an intermediate station to get food and drink, returning to my original seat at the next stop).
On shorter and multi-call journeys, I tend to stay in my seat and accept an indifferent drink and a snack item from the trolley, but more often may not be bothered at all
However even on the longer journey my wife who is disabled would not be able to walk though the train and she would be deprived of any refreshment if travelling alone and there was only a buffet car service (although she would probably travel with a thermos and some food). Other passengers often express concerns about losing their seat and don't wish to lose sight of their luggage.
I am afraid I hark back to the days of the Dining Car and being offered reservations for either first or second sitting for lunch or dinner!
However nowadays, do I prefer at seat trolley service or a walk up buffet service?
I am afraid the answer has to be both on longer journeys (say over 1 hour for the average passenger journey on that service).
On a longer journey (say over 90 minutes) I wish to purchase not only a hot hot drink or a cold cold drink but also have the opportunity to have a hot meal dish. If that cannot be served to my seat then I would walk through to a buffet/shop. I much preferred this service on the old Virgin XC Voyagers to the trolley service on similar length journeys on TPE or TfW (now - but previously Alphaline). Although in all cases there seemed little excuse for short forming trains to meet passenger loads (at least Virgin XC used to regularly double up the Voyagers even if catering could only be offered in one section - I have been known on more than one occasion to change sections at an intermediate station to get food and drink, returning to my original seat at the next stop).
On shorter and multi-call journeys, I tend to stay in my seat and accept an indifferent drink and a snack item from the trolley, but more often may not be bothered at all
However even on the longer journey my wife who is disabled would not be able to walk though the train and she would be deprived of any refreshment if travelling alone and there was only a buffet car service (although she would probably travel with a thermos and some food). Other passengers often express concerns about losing their seat and don't wish to lose sight of their luggage.
It is far more subtle than that. I have known the same tea to taste very different from one hard water area (chalk) to another (limestone).Dont be silly. Yorkshire tea brews perfectly well in mk which has hard water
Perhaps you simply atent able to deal with the strength
Muenchener
Member
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Buffet; if not in receipt of a complimentary offering in 1st.
The buffet gives you an opportunity to stretch your legs whist walking down the train.
Not usually bothered about food or drink on a journey less than about 45 mins...
The buffet gives you an opportunity to stretch your legs whist walking down the train.
Not usually bothered about food or drink on a journey less than about 45 mins...
Buffet preferable in my view.
Larger range of goods including freshly made hot coffee and cold beer. Hot snacks are/should be available.
A proper buffet counter can be staffed by one person when not busy but by two or three staff when busier.
Despite various claims made about improvements already made or on the way, trolleys never seem to work reliably.
Entirely absent.
Hiding in first class.
Static in some random location.
In the other portion of the train.
I also suspect that staff prefer working in a fixed buffet to pushing a heavy trolley up and down. This makes it easier to recruit and retain staff, which in turn allows a buffet to be provided more reliably than a trolley.
Larger range of goods including freshly made hot coffee and cold beer. Hot snacks are/should be available.
A proper buffet counter can be staffed by one person when not busy but by two or three staff when busier.
Despite various claims made about improvements already made or on the way, trolleys never seem to work reliably.
Entirely absent.
Hiding in first class.
Static in some random location.
In the other portion of the train.
I also suspect that staff prefer working in a fixed buffet to pushing a heavy trolley up and down. This makes it easier to recruit and retain staff, which in turn allows a buffet to be provided more reliably than a trolley.
xotGD
Established Member
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TPExpress offer filter coffee in a cup with a clever lid. By far the best you'll get from a trolley. Just a pity that so many of their services are so rammed that the trolley can't get through.
AlastairFraser
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Be careful, you'll start a forum tea war. How dare you insult the great god of loose PG Tips ;D ,none of your teabagged rubbish. However, I have to agree with you on the buffet/trolley issue.There should be a trolley with substandard sandwiches and confectionery plus beverages for those who cannot be bothered to go to the Buffet and the Buffet for those who want a good quality meal and drink,whether hot or coldDont be silly. Yorkshire tea brews perfectly well in mk which has hard water
Perhaps you simply atent able to deal with the strength
fgwrich
Established Member
That was, somewhat unsurprisingly, GWR. The questions provided to the “public” where something on the lines of “Would you prefer an old fashioned style buffet or an at seat service with food bought to you”. The biggest issue / bugbear I have with this is how hideously ambiguous this question is. By saying “An Old Fashioned Style Buffet” instantly makes the buffet sound old and past it’s sell by date, while the “an at seat service with food bought to you” make it sound as if GWR we’re going to offer you a Pullman or Travelling Chef style service. Of course what we have in reality is a poorly stocked / offering of a trolley designed and leased from Hitachi - all part of the apparently “Improved Service” we have with these IEPs.
I was speaking to the buffet staff on both ScotRail and LNERs HSTs the other day - both make valid points that, when announced or through signage in the train, people know where the buffet is. Not just for food but in case they need to speak to a member of staff, or in case of an emergency - something that isn’t as easy for a member of the public having to find a trolley attendant or member of on train staff on a packed out train (the buffet effectively being a focal point or meeting place if you will).
Another issue I have with trollies, barring the limited selection is being highlighted on this service as we speak. The member of staff is trying to get through this 170 with the trolley, but people are now coming up to him as he serves. This then both blocks the aisle, causes confusion for the staff member and is frustrating for other passengers who aren’t effectively jumping the gun. Becoming a static trolley may help, but then it defeats the point of having a trolley and you might as well just have a buffet or permanent trolley space (similar to the South Central 319s).
(He’s also now just run out of hot water and crisps, limiting his selection further).
fgwrich
Established Member
Again this is where FGW has shot itself in the foot over the successive years. IIRC, the 2007 HST refurbishment included a proper bean to cup coffee machine in their buffets (including the mini buffets!). They do also serve Tregothnan Tea which for us South Western folk is rather nice!
For me, the answer is - it depends on the train!
If I'm making a journey of less than about 45 minutes, I don't expect anything, though if there's a trolley service it can be a bonus. From there to somewhere between an hour and a half and two hours, I'd expect to be able to reliably get a vaguely decent cup of tea and maybe a chocolate biscuit or something similar. If that's from a trolley, then that's great; if I have to go to a buffet counter, that's fine too. If it's the trolley steward coming through and announcing that the hot water has run out, then that's as bad as no trolley in my book.
Much beyond the 2-hour mark, and I'll be wanting to get up and move around a bit at some point, so a buffet becomes desirable. Failing that I'll go and look out of the vestibule window, but a trip to the buffet is quite nice, and I might have something slightly more substantial to eat that I wouldn't be able to get from a trolley. But the trolley is still a useful benefit, if it can be kept reasonably well stocked throughout the journey.
The longer the journey, the stronger the expectation for a buffet becomes. Beyond about four hours, it becomes an expectation; beyond maybe six or eight hours, a restaurant car starts to look appealing - although by the time I was old enough to make such journeys, they had disappeared on the routes I use.
If I'm making a journey of less than about 45 minutes, I don't expect anything, though if there's a trolley service it can be a bonus. From there to somewhere between an hour and a half and two hours, I'd expect to be able to reliably get a vaguely decent cup of tea and maybe a chocolate biscuit or something similar. If that's from a trolley, then that's great; if I have to go to a buffet counter, that's fine too. If it's the trolley steward coming through and announcing that the hot water has run out, then that's as bad as no trolley in my book.
Much beyond the 2-hour mark, and I'll be wanting to get up and move around a bit at some point, so a buffet becomes desirable. Failing that I'll go and look out of the vestibule window, but a trip to the buffet is quite nice, and I might have something slightly more substantial to eat that I wouldn't be able to get from a trolley. But the trolley is still a useful benefit, if it can be kept reasonably well stocked throughout the journey.
The longer the journey, the stronger the expectation for a buffet becomes. Beyond about four hours, it becomes an expectation; beyond maybe six or eight hours, a restaurant car starts to look appealing - although by the time I was old enough to make such journeys, they had disappeared on the routes I use.
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