Unable to get on train!

blakey1152 · 10 Aug 2019

Hi,
I had to travel back from Solihull yesterday and I had an advance ticket valid on the 1624 to Marylebone - However, because the train was rammed to capacity because of the lack of trains from Birmingham New Street into London I was unable to get on the train!

The employee on the platform said to go to the ticket office which I did but this was fruitless as the Ticket Office was "temporarily closed" - whether or not it was unmanned or the person in the office had gone for a break I do not know.

I didn't want to risk catching the next train into London with my advance ticket in case of issues with a ticket check - So I purchased (after a battle with the worlds worst touch screen ticket machine which made me think the Southeastern ones are amazing) a Super Off Peak single for £31.30 to London - Almost 3 times the cost of my now invalid due to no fault of my own Advanced ticket!

I am wondering is it worth complaining to Chiltern Trains and explaining what happened to request a refund on the £31.30 ticket - not sure if they have a delay repay scheme as obviously I got into London way later than I should have on my original ticket.

Any help greatly appreciated.

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite · 10 Aug 2019

You should receive both a refund on the additional ticket which did not need to be purchased and Delay Repay on the original ticket.

Others may be able to advise on the best way to do this.

JBuchananGB · 10 Aug 2019

I hope you have kept both tickets. Assuming Chiltern ran the train that you couldn't board, and Chiltern operated the TVM which sold you the ticket, then both claims are with Chiltern. Probably best to submit an e-mail to them outlining the situation, and claiming Delay Repay for the Advance ticket, and a refund for the additional ticket. They might want to charge £10 admin fee for the refund, but you should argue against that I think. The Advance ticket was valid on your journey on the later train.

AlterEgo · 10 Aug 2019

JBuchananGB said:
I hope you have kept both tickets. Assuming Chiltern ran the train that you couldn't board, and Chiltern operated the TVM which sold you the ticket, then both claims are with Chiltern. Probably best to submit an e-mail to them outlining the situation, and claiming Delay Repay for the Advance ticket, and a refund for the additional ticket. They might want to charge £10 admin fee for the refund, but you should argue against that I think. The Advance ticket was valid on your journey on the later train.

This is probably the best course of action. Although, for the OP’s benefit, there was no need to buy an additional ticket.

RPM · 10 Aug 2019

Slightly hair-splitting point, but Chiltern are not part of the Delay Repay scheme, so you need to ask for *compensation* for the delay and a refund on the second ticket.

Bletchleyite · 10 Aug 2019

RPM said:
Slightly hair-splitting point, but Chiltern are not part of the Delay Repay scheme, so you need to ask for *compensation* for the delay and a refund on the second ticket.

Are they the last TOC remaining not in the scheme, out of interest?

The old Passenger Charter schemes didn't pay in the event of a "no fault" delay, the overcrowding wasn't Chiltern's fault so this may well not pay (no harm in asking, though!) However, a refund of the unnecessary ticket is certainly due.

RPM · 10 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Are they the last TOC remaining not in the scheme, out of interest?

The old Passenger Charter schemes didn't pay in the event of a "no fault" delay, the overcrowding wasn't Chiltern's fault so this may well not pay (no harm in asking, though!) However, a refund of the unnecessary ticket is certainly due.

Do Virgin Trains still use the old system? They are the only other franchise of similar longevity.

Interesting how things have moved on. I remember when the Chiltern Passenger Charter was considered revolutionary when they offered compensation for 30 minute delays against the then industry standard of one hour. Now the Chiltern compensation offer is meagre compared to other TOCs.

Bletchleyite · 10 Aug 2019

RPM said:
Do Virgin Trains still use the old system? They are the only other franchise of similar longevity.

No, they switched to Delay Repay (30) on the last direct award.

gray1404 · 10 Aug 2019

Which service couldn't you board exactly?

As others have said, there was no need for you to buy an additional ticket. I think it is important customers do not do this as we don't want it becoming something of a norm whereby people start saying this is what one must do. I cannot understand why you were told to go to the ticket office when you had a valid ticket already.

In this case you need to claim a refund of the additional ticket from the train company who operated the ticket machine and request compensation for the delay to your journey from the company who operated the train you couldn't board. In order to do this you need to state your actual arrival time at your destination compared with the time you should have arrived had your journey gone to plan.

Merseyrail also do not operate under Delay Repay yet, which is very annoying as someone who makes long distance journeys starting on their network. It is the bare minimum under the NRCoT with them for anything off their network. I wonder if they ever actually will come in line with the delay repay rules as it feels like it will never happen.

Darandio · 10 Aug 2019

gray1404 said:
As others have said, there was no need for you to buy an additional ticket. I think it is important customers do not do this as we don't want it becoming something of a norm whereby people start saying this is what one must do. I cannot understand why you were told to go to the ticket office when you had a valid ticket already.

Regardless of why the OP was told to go to the ticket office, at no point were they told to buy a new ticket.

Bletchleyite · 10 Aug 2019

gray1404 said:
Merseyrail also do not operate under Delay Repay yet, which is very annoying as someone who makes long distance journeys starting on their network. It is the bare minimum under the NRCoT with them for anything off their network. I wonder if they ever actually will come in line with the delay repay rules as it feels like it will never happen.

TBH I would see it as more likely they will secede from ATOC/RDG, potentially purchase the infrastructure and become more like Metrolink as a wholly local operation with no through ticketing.

Bletchleyite · 10 Aug 2019

Darandio said:
Regardless of why the OP was told to go to the ticket office, at no point were they told to buy a new ticket.

While there's no requirement to have your ticket endorsed, it can avoid arguments later, so that's a reasonable reason to go there.

SteveM70 · 11 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Are they the last TOC remaining not in the scheme, out of interest?

The old Passenger Charter schemes didn't pay in the event of a "no fault" delay, the overcrowding wasn't Chiltern's fault so this may well not pay (no harm in asking, though!) However, a refund of the unnecessary ticket is certainly due.

Presuming that the OP’s advance ticket came with a seat reservation, regardless of the reason for overcrowding the TOC are surely at fault for failing to allow space for known reservations from subsequent stations?

I realise enforcement would have been nigh on impossible, but that’s not the same thing

Bletchleyite · 11 Aug 2019

SteveM70 said:
Presuming that the OP’s advance ticket came with a seat reservation, regardless of the reason for overcrowding the TOC are surely at fault for failing to allow space for known reservations from subsequent stations?

I realise enforcement would have been nigh on impossible, but that’s not the same thing

Pretty sure Chiltern don't do seat reservations, just counted places which don't actually entitle you to anything.

Saperstein · 12 Aug 2019

gray1404 said:
Merseyrail also do not operate under Delay Repay yet, which is very annoying as someone who makes long distance journeys starting on their network. It is the bare minimum under the NRCoT with them for anything off their network. I wonder if they ever actually will come in line with the delay repay rules as it feels like it will never happen.

Yes that and and the fact that they don’t support TOD are really the only two things that get to me about Merseyrail and I cannot understand why they cannot sort it out.

Saperstein.

Starmill · 12 Aug 2019

Hull Trains and Grand Central offer their own compensation schemes rather than Delay Repay, although Hull Trains generally do not try to invoke the exception for events outside rail industry control.

TfL Rail and London Overground don't have Delay Repay schemes, but do offer a Service Delay Refund, which offers you all of your money back for the journey in question, but has different eligibility criteria.

As has been noted, Merseyrail offer the least, with very low entitlement for journeys including other operators trains, but there is a slightly better entitlement for journeys on Merseyrail only.

In all cases, the minimum required by the NRCoT must be met.

Starmill · 12 Aug 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The old Passenger Charter schemes didn't pay in the event of a "no fault" delay, the overcrowding wasn't Chiltern's fault so this may well not pay

The allowable exception is if the delay is outwith the control of the railway industry, not the company.

The overcrowding was caused by the closure at London Euston that day, as a result of signalling problems, and overhead wire problems elsewhere.

jon0844 · 12 Aug 2019

Darandio said:
Regardless of why the OP was told to go to the ticket office, at no point were they told to buy a new ticket.

Who said to go to the ticket office? If it was platform staff, why couldn't they endorse the ticket right there and then? Write the headcode, full and standing and name/ID or whatever on the back and job done. The same endorsement would also assist on any compensation claim, and everyone would be happy (including whoever later processed the compensation who has an easier job than now).

najaB · 12 Aug 2019

jon0844 said:
If it was platform staff, why couldn't they endorse the ticket right there and then?

Because they weren't authorised to do so?

blakey1152 · 22 Aug 2019

Sorry for the delay in responding back to the thread!
Chiltern got back to me eventually and are happy to refund the full amount for the extra ticket and apologised for the exceptional overcrowding on the train. I've got to send the tickets back to them and I'll see if they give any extra for the delay as well!!!

I didn't realise until I read this thread that they didn't operate the delay repay scheme.

Thankyou all for your help

Unable to get on train!

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