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Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR

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pt_mad

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swt_passenger said:
The “crumple zone” rules that prevented passenger accommodation in the leading few metres behind the cab (on 125 mph trains) affected new builds around the time Voyagers and Pendolinos were new, but were superseded within a few years. The rules that now exist are not expressed in terms of a ban over a certain distance.
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So begs the question why on earth didn't they put the kitchen between the two classes with a walk through alongside? That would have futureproofed the design for a buffet to be used easily later if wanted, or for order and collect warm snacks to be collected from a simple counter in the kitchen wall.
 
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JN114

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I suspect probably PRM regulations? I don’t think it’s possible to have a wide-enough aisle (by modern standards) past one side of a fully equipped kitchen; and I suspect it was undesirable to have the train permanently divided by the kitchen area.
 
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mark-h

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Clarence Yard said:
The "kitchen at the end" design certainly has it's supporters and came in with the passenger free "crumple zone" fashion but I don't think it was mandatory here because the other end has seats right up to and including the kitchen area at the other end.

I suspect it came down to personal choice by the specifier and the cost of providing a heavy-ish catering vehicle in the middle of the train.

My personal preference is always to have the caterer between the two classes. If you are a trolley operator it is far easier to work five or six cars max away from your base rather than having to work the full nine cars. You can also have at least one full first, which is far easier to host and supply with food/drink.
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pt_mad said:
So begs the question why on earth didn't they put the kitchen between the two classes with a walk through alongside? That would have futureproofed the design for a buffet to be used easily later if wanted, or for order and collect warm snacks to be collected from a simple counter in the kitchen wall.
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I suspect they looked at the LNER/VTEC/East Coast and Virgin approach of having hot food included in first class tickets.

Having the kitchen/buffet as the divide between first and standard makes it harder to declassify some of the First seating on services where there is little premium demand.

Locating the Buffet in the middle of the standard class seating makes it easier for passengers to reach it as (assuming first class passengers are served from the kitchen).
 
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Bletchleyite

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Goldfish62 said:
So I understand, although I've managed to avoid that situation and. However, that's a day to day management issue, rather than delineate change to the catering offer. DB's competence, or lack of, in actually operating anything is of course a whole topic in its own right.
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Though the lack of provision of GWR trolleys kind-of falls in the same bracket. I don't mind a trolley, but I would like to be served 100% of the time (or as near to it as possible). Staffing needs to be sufficient to allow this. It isn't often that my train is cancelled due to no driver/guard, so why is the trolley considered expendable? OK, it's not needed to make the train move, but shouldn't more thought go into the quality of the service than simply that?
 
HamworthyGoods

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Bletchleyite said:
Though the lack of provision of GWR trolleys kind-of falls in the same bracket. I don't mind a trolley, but I would like to be served 100% of the time (or as near to it as possible). Staffing needs to be sufficient to allow this. It isn't often that my train is cancelled due to no driver/guard, so why is the trolley considered expendable? OK, it's not needed to make the train move, but shouldn't more thought go into the quality of the service than simply that?
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GNER used to cancel trains if they were going to run with no catering
 
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father_jack

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HamworthyGoods said:
GNER used to cancel trains if they were going to run with no catering
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And GWR are bringing/ have brought a role of "Front Set Lead"/FSL/superior Customer Host which has of yet only vague safety critical duties, hence why the 5 car lock outs if they are unavailable. That situation is ok at present as it's yet to be tested in anger. I'd wager a certain number of FSLs will "unsubscribe" after the first incident when in the front set alone. The 2x5 car involved in the Margam tragedy fortunately had a travelling train manager who volunteered to travel in the front set rather that travel on the cushions, so to say.
 
CC 72100

CC 72100

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No catering on the EMT HST I'm currently on which is fitted with a buffet... and there was me thinking that a buffet solves all catering issues and that only certain TOCs have catering crew staffing issues? :lol:
 
tiptoptaff

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CC 72100 said:
No catering on the EMT HST I'm currently on which is fitted with a buffet... and there was me thinking that a buffet solves all catering issues and that only certain TOCs have catering crew staffing issues? :lol:
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Don't bring reasoned arguments in to this!
 
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SwindonBert

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I'm on a train from PLY to SWI with no catering, due to staff shortages, the TM at PLY said those of us in 1st can make a claim for compensation, has anyone successfully done this?

The one from EXD just went to see what was available & put the trolley in coach L
 
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irish_rail

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SwindonBert said:
I'm on a train from PLY to SWI with no catering, due to staff shortages, the TM at PLY said those of us in 1st can make a claim for compensation, has anyone successfully done this?

The one from EXD just went to see what was available & put the trolley in coach L
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I would just say you are lucky to be on a direct Plymouth to Swindon train. Sadly GWR seem determined to do away with these useful direct links between the south west and bath, Swindon and Didcot.
 
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CharlesR

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irish_rail said:
I would just say you are lucky to be on a direct Plymouth to Swindon train. Sadly GWR seem determined to do away with these useful direct links between the south west and bath, Swindon and Didcot.
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I think a large factor in this is the fact that they will be running the Cardiff to Penzance service which will maintain the crucial link between Bristol and the West of England.
 
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irish_rail

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CharlesR said:
I think a large factor in this is the fact that they will be running the Cardiff to Penzance service which will maintain the crucial link between Bristol and the West of England.
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True, a couple of services, but unfortunately not much good for those wanting to travel direct to Bath , Swindon or Didcot.
 
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SwindonBert

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irish_rail said:
I would just say you are lucky to be on a direct Plymouth to Swindon train. Sadly GWR seem determined to do away with these useful direct links between the south west and bath, Swindon and Didcot.
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Agree totally, will miss the 8:30ish train to Penzance
 
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Fast Track

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Well to update this thread on the 12noon Paddington - Penzance today coach A today - and no sign of any catering trolley by Exeter.

Many disgruntled folk today. Not a great customer service experience GWR. Bring back the buffet so customers can at least stretch their legs and have a drink and snack when they want to.

It seems the actual on board train experience in this country just goes backwards.
 
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Goldfish62

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Fast Track said:
Well to update this thread on the 12noon Paddington - Penzance today coach A today - and no sign of any catering trolley by Exeter.

Many disgruntled folk today. Not a great customer service experience GWR. Bring back the buffet so customers can at least stretch their legs and have a drink and snack when they want to.

It seems the actual on board train experience in this country just goes backwards.
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Trolleys on their own are really not working. I was travelling on an only moderately busy train from Worcester recently, five car IET. The standard class trolley started operation about 15 min after departure from Worcester. It only arrived in coach A at Oxford, by which time I'd lost all interest in purchasing anything as I was getting off at Reading.

If you're on a nine car IET you may as well assume you'll never see the trolley. Reportedly staff say they cannot get through the whole train once on the Paddington - Exeter runs.

It's no way run what was once a high quality Intercity service.
 
Ashley Hill

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Another problem is GWRs system of accounting on IET trolleys. Before a train leaves its origin eg PAD fresh stock is put on. This has to be counted,checked and loaded. Even individual tea bags and milk sachets may be counted. This is to allow the computer to figure out what needs to be restocked at the end of the journey. Because of this the trolley may not start passing through until Didcot or Newbury. Therefore on a busy train those in A or J may not see a trolley. Some stewards choose to operate a static trolley in the middle of the train. This does seem popular with passengers as A. they know where the trolley is and B.they can go to it when they want rather than wait for it to come(if at all). These A and B arguments are perhaps the best reasons for bringing back the buffet. The plumbing exists for one behind one of the walls.
Getting rid of the pointless kitchen on 5 car sets would negate the loss of seats if a mini buffet was provided. Likewise on 9 cars only a handful of kitchens are really needed to cover for restaurant services.
 
HamworthyGoods

HamworthyGoods

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Ashley Hill said:
Getting rid of the pointless kitchen on 5 car sets would negate the loss of seats if a mini buffet was provided. Likewise on 9 cars only a handful of kitchens are really needed to cover for restaurant services.
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The kitchens on the 5 cars aren’t pointless as they are the stock (rightly or wrongly due to DfT spec and Penzance stabling capacity as has been discussed on here many times) used on the West Country trains with restauraunt services.
 
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Goldfish62

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Ashley Hill said:
Another problem is GWRs system of accounting on IET trolleys. Before a train leaves its origin eg PAD fresh stock is put on. This has to be counted,checked and loaded. Even individual tea bags and milk sachets may be counted. This is to allow the computer to figure out what needs to be restocked at the end of the journey. Because of this the trolley may not start passing through until Didcot or Newbury. Therefore on a busy train those in A or J may not see a trolley. Some stewards choose to operate a static trolley in the middle of the train. This does seem popular with passengers as A. they know where the trolley is and B.they can go to it when they want rather than wait for it to come(if at all). These A and B arguments are perhaps the best reasons for bringing back the buffet. The plumbing exists for one behind one of the walls.
Getting rid of the pointless kitchen on 5 car sets would negate the loss of seats if a mini buffet was provided. Likewise on 9 cars only a handful of kitchens are really needed to cover for restaurant services.
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A static trolley would be a winner with me. You could even build a small counter around it and call it a buffet. ;)
 
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Goldfish62

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HamworthyGoods said:
The kitchens on the 5 cars aren’t pointless as they are the stock (rightly or wrongly due to DfT spec and Penzance stabling capacity as has been discussed on here many times) used on the West Country trains with restauraunt services.
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The problem is of course I assume that the kitchen couldn't be reduced in size either due to the type of meals being cooked.

A potential solution would be to abolish the premium dining and reduce the kitchen by one bay, which would then serve LNER-type meals to 1st Class, complimentary or paid, and add in a mini-buffet for standard class. On nine car units the buffet could be larger to serve a greater number of passengers.

I'm prepared to be shot down in flames...
 
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