Ljubljana to Belgrade

Me and a group of friends are travelling to Ljubliana for a few days which should be a good laugh.

However me and one of my friends are hoping to extend this trip with a trip to Belgrade

There appears to be a train direct from Ljubliana at 08.25 but it's not bookable via Trainline or Loco2 . Is this train easy to book and easy to use?

Thanks in advance !

Is this what you are after?
https://www.slo-zeleznice.si/en/passenger-transport/travelling-abroad/serbia

Struner said:

Is this what you are after?
https://www.slo-zeleznice.si/en/passenger-transport/travelling-abroad/serbia

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Yes that's what I'm looking at, thanks. But it's not clear how to book it. Also I'm interested to know how reliable it is, as I've read that trains to Serbia are incredibly unreliable.

alex397 said:

Yes that's what I'm looking at, thanks. But it's not clear how to book it. Also I'm interested to know how reliable it is, as I've read that trains to Serbia are incredibly unreliable.

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I think you need to book it from a Ticket office, as it is a sleeper service (starts from Zürich) it's reservation compulsory?

Btw you'll need a Passport and a good travel insurance, as Serbia isn't in the EU or Schengen.

I did that last year (as part of a longer trip).
Ljubljana-Zagreb for me (highly scenic) was part of an ÖBB e-ticket from Salzburg and Villach, and I stayed overnight in Zagreb (nice place).
Zagreb-Beograd I bought at the station when I arrived at Zagreb the evening before, at the local equivalent of €19.
When the Beograd train turned up from Ljubljana at about 1100 (with some sleepers from CH/AT), there was a lot of shunting and I'm not sure any of the stock which set off for Beograd actually arrived on the train from Ljubljana.
I think we set off with 5 coaches.
The long journey to Vinkovci was uneventful, slow in places, fast in others, but quite comfortable.
It's noticeable that the fast bits were the ones destroyed in the Balkan wars and since rebuilt to modern standards.
You can see in places across into Bosnia on the other side of the Sava from Croatia.
At Vinkovci there was another shunt, and I think they tried to reduce it to a single coach.
But as the passengers wouldn't fit, they let us back into a second coach.
On to the border between HR and SR, two lots of passport control, loco change, lots of police, not very friendly. It is an external EU border after all.
Then on to Beograd, quite a short journey, arriving about 1800.
It was hot, and there was a surprise visit en route (at Sremska Mitrovica I think) by a Serbian ice-cream seller, for which we were very grateful - the only refreshments available since Zagreb.

Plenty of engineering work where the Zagreb-Beograd line meets the one from Novi Sad and Budapest, and the line onwards to Beograd has been upgraded (by the Russians).
We arrived at the old 1884 station in Beograd, which closed a week later. Trains now arrive at the new Centar station, but I can't tell you what that was like - not near the city centre though.
On arrival I booked a ticket to Budapest as that was my next destination - a very slow queue, but no problem in booking the ticket with a credit card.
That train was a 3-car loco-hauled service to Vienna ("Avala").
Local currency is a bit of a problem until you find an ATM, though they are quite happy to take euros at a poor rate.
The seat61 information is quite accurate for this trip, but I'd say be prepared for fairly run-down stock to ride in.

cactustwirly said:

I think you need to book it from a Ticket office, as it is a sleeper service (starts from Zürich) it's reservation compulsory?

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To clarify, there are two trains a day on this route, one daytime and one nighttime.

For the 0825 ex-Ljubljana that the original post refers to, the Czech website has this info for the usual composition of coaches: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=OeBB&kategorie=&cislo=415&nazev=&rok=2019

LNW-GW Joint said:

I did that last year (as part of a longer trip).
Ljubljana-Zagreb for me (highly scenic)... ..

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Indeed, the ride through the Sava Valley has to be one of the most unappreciated routes in Europe. Apart from your good self and me, I've never seen any mention it as noteworthy at all.

Bizarrely, for Slovenes, this area is the equivalent of the UK's "grim, gritty north", with the town of Trbovlje in particular considered a "socially deprived, industrial hell-hole", a sort 1930s Sheffield Brightside - Essen conglomorate. OK, there are a couple of cement works and a power station, but at its worst it's like the run-down part of Wellyn Garden City. Everything is relative, I suppose.

Suggestions to OP: make sure you do this bit in daylight (it's certainly far more scenic than Zagreb - Belgrade).

Not to forget the old JŽ steam locos displayed at various places, eg at Zidani Most by the bridge, and at the south end of Zagreb GK station.
My first run through the Sava valley was from the other direction - on the Südbahn route Graz-Maribor-Ljubljana-Villa Opicina (and down to Trieste on the tram).
Splendid river gorge/karst scenery, if a little slow!
Left hand running in Slovenia too, it turns to right hand running south of Zidani Most, towards Zagreb.
Power change also, at the SI/HR border (3kV DC to 25kV AC) - the Italian legacy.
Km posts throughout still show distance from Beograd.
There's still a long single track section south of Zagreb, between Dugo Selo and Novska.
The level of graffiti on rail vehicles can be depressing.

I did this run in the reverse direction about a year ago. If what happens east bound is what happened westbound the train will arrive at Ljubljana with two fairly tatty looking graffiti covered Serbian coaches on the front, then some other coaches, then the sleepers. The sleepers come off at Zagreb and the other coaches at Vinkovici leaving just the two Serbian coaches onward to Belgrade. So important to be in the Serbian coaches. Croatia is not in Schengen and Serbia not in The EU so there will be border checks. At the Serbian border they are likely to take your passport away for checking. The state of the track deteriorates the further east you go. In Serbia the train no more than waddles along. The train now goes to Belgrade Centar (anything but central - a concrete block in the middle of nowhere). I was fortunate to do the run just before the old Belgrade station closed. You will probably need a taxi from Centar into Belgrade so there is the problem of Serbian currency. As has been already mentioned the best part of this run scenically is at the Ljubjliana end. Ljubjliana is quite a busy modern station so I would not have anticipated any problem there buying a ticket for the train. Ljubjliana also has a decent railway museum only about 10 minutes walk from the station.

jamesontheroad said:

To clarify, there are two trains a day on this route, one daytime and one nighttime.

For the 0825 ex-Ljubljana that the original post refers to, the Czech website has this info for the usual composition of coaches: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=OeBB&kategorie=&cislo=415&nazev=&rok=2019

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Yeah that one is actually a sleeper from Zürich, the Serbian coaches get added to this train at Ljubljana to go to Zagreb

Thank you for all the informative replies, was really interesting reading through.

However we did decide to instead travel by SerbiaAir. It was a flight around 8pm, which meant we were able to enjoy another day in Ljubljana with our other friends. It would have also meant an early night the following night as the train is at 08.15 - it meant we could enjoy the Ljubljana night life. I would have liked to have travelled on this journey, but was a bit too much of a hassle compared to flying. It also meant I got to tick off SerbiaAir, and travel on a rather old propeller plane (which was half empty).

My Slovenia/Serbia holiday wasn't completely trainless though - we travelled by train to get to the incredible Postojna caves - a very scenic journey, even though the Postojna-Ljubljana section isn't highlighted green on the European Rail Map. Postojna station is a very grand affair for a station that wasn't very busy at all!

I also managed to get a ride on the BG:VOZ suburban train in Belgrade, from the surprisingly grand Russian-style Vukov Spomenik station originally built for the non-existent Metro, to the Belgrade 'Centar' station - the unfinished concrete box in the middle of nowhere. The trains used on the BG:VOZ services are ancient and absolutely disgusting - completely covered in graffiti, with plastic seats inside, and to get on the train involved minding a large gap then climbing up some steep stairs (UK H&S officers would probably faint). For me the grimness was part of the fun, but its really not a modern rail service, and its no wonder that Serbian roads are so busy with cars in comparison to other European countries.

An incredibly depressing sight was Belgrade Main Station (Železnička stanica Beograd Glavna). All the tracks have been lifted now, and I witnessed some of the Platform 4/5 canopy being demolished. Bizarrely, the station is still open, with a ticket office with people buying tickets (presumably for trains from the Centar or Topcider stations), and a cafe and money exchange place. I'm very pleased I got to walk around this closed station, before it is all gone (although apparently the 1885 building will remain and be preserved, but I guess things can change if the money is right!). There was also a preserved steam loco there, one which pulled Tito's Blue train. Great to see that, but lets just say you had to watch where you walked. Its main use is now a public toilet....

(I will add, there are some modern parts to Belgrade - just not around the station or most of the public transport! Don't want to put people off going, it was a fascinating place)

Chris Tarrant has just done one of his off-beat trips through the Balkans on Channel 5.
It's not brand new but you should find it on catch-up C5.
He travels Ljubljana-Zagreb-Belgrade with a side trip into Bosnia and then Serbia and Montenegro (Belgrade-Bar).
Some of his historical "facts" are rather questionable, but it's an interesting snapshot of the ex-JZ railways.

Thanks for sharing!

I’ve just booked a trip from Sweden to Croatia for later in the month; I’m most excited about the München - Ljubljana - Zagreb bit of the trip, for many of the reasons discussed above.

cactustwirly said:

Yeah that one is actually a sleeper from Zürich, the Serbian coaches get added to this train at Ljubljana to go to Zagreb

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In fact (at least until recently), the Zurich-Ljubljana-Zagreb sleeper does have through carriages all the way Zagreb-Belgrade, though only with seats; the sleeping cars are - understandably - dropped off at Zagreb since it's well past night-time then. So if you want to sleep, and also want to travel from Zurich or Austria straight through to Belgrade, you have to switch carriages at Zagreb.

Redonian said:

The state of the track deteriorates the further east you go. In Serbia the train no more than waddles along.

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Serbia has developed less than some other parts of Yugoslavia, following the various civil wars which divided the country up in the '90s, and the punitive attitude towards Serbia by EU countries. But then the primitive - though friendly - state of things was part of the charm of all of Yugoslavia when it was still Yugoslavia. When I was there several times, in the '60s/'70s, many European countries were developing their road networks, with motorways, autoroutes, autostrada, etc. I found myself driving along what the Yugoslav authorities had proudly labeled their new "autoput/аутопут", only to find that stretches of it were cobbled... Still, some of the most enjoyable summers I spent years ago were hanging out in the Balkans - mostly in various parts of Yugoslavia as was.

There's actually a lot of upgrade work going on in Serbia at the moment, but most of it is in the very early stages, with a lot of disruption.
It's also being done with Russian and Chinese loans and project management rather than EU/western help.
Belgrade-Novi Sad is one of the upgrades currently in progress (there's a new bridge over the Danube at Novi Sad already, and a new tunnel is being built further south).
The junction area where the Zagreb and Novi Sad lines converge has been rebuilt, with faster line speeds towards Belgrade.
The whole Belgrade-Subotica-Budapest route will be upgraded in a joint project with Hungary (currently speeds are painfully slow in both countries).
Electrification and upgrade of Niš-Dimitrovgrad (Bulgarian border) is also in progress, completing wires to Istanbul.
One day, a much faster Budapest-Belgrade-Sofia-Istanbul route will be available, with upgrades also ongoing in Bulgaria and Turkey.
But it might take another decade or so to complete.
Ironically, in Croatia the southern sections of the route to Belgrade which were destroyed in the recent war have been rebuilt and upgraded (with EU money), while the undamaged northern sections are still soldiering on with the old JŽ infrastructure.

LNW-GW Joint said:

There's actually a lot of upgrade work going on in Serbia at the moment, but most of it is in the very early stages, with a lot of disruption.
It's also being done with Russian and Chinese loans and project management rather than EU/western help.
Belgrade-Novi Sad is one of the upgrades currently in progress (there's a new bridge over the Danube at Novi Sad already, and a new tunnel is being built further south).
The junction area where the Zagreb and Novi Sad lines converge has been rebuilt, with faster line speeds towards Belgrade.
The whole Belgrade-Subotica-Budapest route will be upgraded in a joint project with Hungary (currently speeds are painfully slow in both countries).
Electrification and upgrade of Niš-Dimitrovgrad (Bulgarian border) is also in progress, completing wires to Istanbul.
One day, a much faster Budapest-Belgrade-Sofia-Istanbul route will be available, with upgrades also ongoing in Bulgaria and Turkey.
But it might take another decade or so to complete.
Ironically, in Croatia the southern sections of the route to Belgrade which were destroyed in the recent war have been rebuilt and upgraded (with EU money), while the undamaged northern sections are still soldiering on with the old JŽ infrastructure.

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Thanks - really helpful information. I've never done Niš through Bulgaria to Istanbul by train, though I drove it once. It was an "educative" experience.