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Worcestershire Parkway station progress

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Doctor Fegg

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I'm sure the booking clerk at work was saying the fare from Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham will be much higher than from the 2 current Worcester stations. Think Cross Country may be setting that fare, but I'll stand corrected on that.

Yes, I think that's inevitable. Worcester-Birmingham is one of the cheapest fares per mile, whereas CrossCountry have never seen a fare they didn't want to gouge. My usual way of travelling to Birmingham from the Cotswold Line is to change (and split tickets) at Worcester, and I don't envisage that changing.
 

Sheddyone

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Yes, I think that's inevitable. Worcester-Birmingham is one of the cheapest fares per mile, whereas CrossCountry have never seen a fare they didn't want to gouge. My usual way of travelling to Birmingham from the Cotswold Line is to change (and split tickets) at Worcester, and I don't envisage that changing.

Interesting. If that's the case, it would also imply that :

a) It won't be included in the "Worcester Stations" group, and
b) It won't be a permitted route to travel Birmingham to Shrub Hill by changing trains at Parkway.

Sheds.
 

takno

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Interesting. If that's the case, it would also imply that :

a) It won't be included in the "Worcester Stations" group, and
b) It won't be a permitted route to travel Birmingham to Shrub Hill by changing trains at Parkway.

Sheds.
It's not a Worcester station, and in fact it's barely closer than droitwich
 

TheBigD

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Not sure if it's already been covered but looking at the proposed services from December for Worcestershire Parkway...

Trains from Oxford/Cotswolds arrive around xx50 and trains to Birmingham depart around xx14, so a 25 minute connection time.

Trains towards Cotswolds/Oxford dep around xx22 with the connection from Birmingham arriving around xx58, so again a 25 minute connection time.

Not my part of the country but I'm guessing that's an improvement on travelling via Shrub Hill?
 

si404

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Cheltenham xx14 -> Cotswolds xx22

Cotswolds xx50 -> Cheltenham xx58

These 8 minute connections look alright, but would Cheltenham-Evesham journeys be competitive with roads even with that good change?
 

Sprinter107

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Cheltenham xx14 -> Cotswolds xx22

Cotswolds xx50 -> Cheltenham xx58

These 8 minute connections look alright, but would Cheltenham-Evesham journeys be competitive with roads even with that good change?
Wonder what the official connection time will be. The Cotswold line platform looks to be a bit of a hike from the rest of the station, when I last looked.
 

TheBigD

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And for those travelling south to Bristol, a same platform 13 minute change at Cheltenham Spa and a journey time of around 70 minutes.

Travelling north from Bristol, a same platform 21 minute change at Cheltenham Spa and a journey time of around 74 minutes.

Currently the all stations stopper direct to/from Shrub Hill takes around 95 minutes.
 

TheBigD

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No idea if XC will be changing the allocation of units for the Nottingham-Cardiff route once the station is open but currently the two services for commuting in to Birmingham at 0736 & 0814 are booked for 3 car 170s but returning from Birmingham in the evening the 1630, 1730, & 1830 are booked for 2 car 170s. I don't know how heavily the services currently load but I'm guessing the evening 2 cars are already cosy on departure from New Street. Should the station attract a large number of commuters to Birmingham then they'll be a lot of overcrowding.
 

takno

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And for those travelling south to Bristol, a same platform 13 minute change at Cheltenham Spa and a journey time of around 70 minutes.

Travelling north from Bristol, a same platform 21 minute change at Cheltenham Spa and a journey time of around 74 minutes.

Currently the all stations stopper direct to/from Shrub Hill takes around 95 minutes.
I've always changed off the stopper and onto a Cross country åt Cheltenham, which tends to save 20 minutes or so anyway
 

GoneSouth

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Cheltenham xx14 -> Cotswolds xx22

Cotswolds xx50 -> Cheltenham xx58

These 8 minute connections look alright, but would Cheltenham-Evesham journeys be competitive with roads even with that good change?
It certainly beats a bus for convenience... have you tried catching a bus in Gloucestershire recently? It’s impossible to make any meaningful journeys outside Cheltenham or Gloucester (and maybe Stroud).

Worcestershire and Gloucestershire are neighbours but as far as public transport goes they are less well connected than anywhere else I know. They may as well be different countries with a border. Maybe WP will start to change that.
 

Parallel

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I've always changed off the stopper and onto a Cross country åt Cheltenham, which tends to save 20 minutes or so anyway
It’s a good way to shave some time off if travelling to Temple Meads, but southbound from Malvern-Ashchurch to Keynsham onwards, you’ll end up on the same train if you change twice. The same northbound - If you are travelling to Cheltenham it’s quicker to change.
 

jimm

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In terms of the station itself, I reckon a December TT change opening date may well be on, but I can't see it being earlier.

That appears to be the current target date and I can't see any reason why it should not be achieved - and of course ties in neatly with the new GWR timetable. An earlier opening is possible - the existing GWR timetable allows for most Cotswold Line services to call at the moment - but does seem unlikely now.

I only mentioned class 170 as that is what is currently used. Probably better to use 3x172 2 car sets and send 4 to Worcester and 2 to Gloucester. The original idea of splitting/joining a train at Bromsgrove was to save a path in and out of New street by using an existing service to serve two destinations.

Any WMR operation south of Worcester is a distant prospect, at the back end of a long list of aspirations for the region. WMR crews at Worcester are no longer operating to Gloucester and back once a week anyway, with the withdrawal of the lone late-night run, so route knowledge is gone

It's not a Worcester station, and in fact it's barely closer than droitwich

Let's see - according to the AA, Worcester Cathedral to Droitwich Spa is 6.8 miles. From the Cathedral to Parkway is 3.9 miles. I'd say that was a fair bit closer.

It certainly beats a bus for convenience... have you tried catching a bus in Gloucestershire recently? It’s impossible to make any meaningful journeys outside Cheltenham or Gloucester (and maybe Stroud).

Depends what you mean by meaningful. If you mean a frequent, regular-interval bus service, perhaps not, though it is a largely rural county to begin with. But is is perfectly possible to make other bus journeys, with Pulhams' various services providing decent connections for much of the northern part of the Cotswolds and to and from Cheltenham - and they accept the joint rail/bus Cotswolds Discoverer ticket, £10.50 for a day, covering journeys using stations between Yate and Ashchurch and Oxford to Moreton-in-Marsh, plus most bus services in between the two sections of railway, and Moreton-in-Marsh to Chipping Campden and Stratford-upon-Avon.
 

Doctor Fegg

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Interesting. If that's the case, it would also imply that :

a) It won't be included in the "Worcester Stations" group

It is of course "Worcestershire Parkway" not "Worcester Parkway". For a while now, tickets from the Cotswold Line (and very possibly further afield) have been printed with destination "Worcester Fgt St/Sh Hl" rather than "Worcester Stations", which may not be a coincidence.
 

GoneSouth

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Any WMR operation south of Worcester is a distant prospect, at the back end of a long list of aspirations for the region. WMR crews at Worcester are no longer operating to Gloucester and back once a week anyway, with the withdrawal of the lone late-night run, so route knowledge is gone
Shame that service was axed as the latest departure from Birmingham to Gloucester is the 2130 which is no use for a night at a NIA or theatre. Hoped it might be extended to other days instead of being scrapped.

Depends what you mean by meaningful. If you mean a frequent, regular-interval bus service, perhaps not, though it is a largely rural county to begin with. But is is perfectly possible to make other bus journeys, with Pulhams' various services providing decent connections for much of the northern part of the Cotswolds and to and from Cheltenham - and they accept the joint rail/bus Cotswolds Discoverer ticket, £10.50 for a day, covering journeys using stations between Yate and Ashchurch and Oxford to Moreton-in-Marsh, plus most bus services in between the two sections of railway, and Moreton-in-Marsh to Chipping Campden and Stratford-upon-Avon.
I didn’t know about the Cotswold Discover tickets, that could be worth looking into, thanks.

You’re right, there are some bus services in the more rural areas but they are few and far between and definitely not ideal. I wouldn’t like to rely on one for commuting, very inflexible.
 

Class 170101

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Worcestershire and Gloucestershire are neighbours but as far as public transport goes they are less well connected than anywhere else I know. They may as well be different countries with a border. Maybe WP will start to change that.

Don't hold your breathe on that one. In my experience unless the bus service is provided commerically then cross border services in my experience don't happen.
 

SoccerHQ

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Yes, I think that's inevitable. Worcester-Birmingham is one of the cheapest fares per mile, whereas CrossCountry have never seen a fare they didn't want to gouge. My usual way of travelling to Birmingham from the Cotswold Line is to change (and split tickets) at Worcester, and I don't envisage that changing.

Banbury-Basingstoke for I think 16 quid off peak return is very good value but yes agree they fleece many other parts of the line where they provide the only service.

Shame if they do it.
 

Class172

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Nothing to do with Parkway but WMR is promising longer trains on the Hereford service. When that will be remains to be seen. On current evidence not until the new Class 196 dmus start to arrive from CAF.
Well if TPE are expedient in introducing their new rolling stock, WMR are stating that every service on the Hereford route should have an extra carriage by the December timetable change.
 

Ianno87

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Banbury-Basingstoke for I think 16 quid off peak return is very good value but yes agree they fleece many other parts of the line where they provide the only service.

Shame if they do it.

Banbury-Basingstoke being priced by GWR!
 

jimm

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Well if TPE are expedient in introducing their new rolling stock, WMR are stating that every service on the Hereford route should have an extra carriage by the December timetable change.

I don't think anyone in Worcestershire or Herefordshire should be getting their hopes up, given the current situation with TPE's new rolling stock.
 

Class172

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I don't think anyone in Worcestershire or Herefordshire should be getting their hopes up, given the current situation with TPE's new rolling stock.
I completely agree, as dismal a situation it is; at least WMR have made this fact abundantly clear on their website.
 

embers25

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Does anyone know why we have Worcestershire Parkway for low level trains and Worcestershire Parkway HL for high level trains, making looking for connections a real pain? Tamworth and Lichfield TV have the same layout and are classed as one station?
 

swt_passenger

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Does anyone know why we have Worcestershire Parkway for low level trains and Worcestershire Parkway HL for high level trains, making looking for connections a real pain? Tamworth and Lichfield TV have the same layout and are classed as one station?
Just noticed that, but it doesn’t seem to be separate until the Dec timetable change. If you check before then both routes are included under Worcestershire Parkway (WOP).

(I think St Pancras is a possible location where this is tweaked somehow before we see the combined data...)
 

takno

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Does anyone know why we have Worcestershire Parkway for low level trains and Worcestershire Parkway HL for high level trains, making looking for connections a real pain? Tamworth and Lichfield TV have the same layout and are classed as one station?
Having a separate tiploc and stanox location code for split level stations is normal - Lichfield, Galton Bridge and Tamworth all have it. What normally happens is that information sites such as National Rail, Traksy and RTT create a station group under the common three-letter retail code, which for Worcestershire parkway is WOP. I've got that set up on Traksy now, and it looks like it also works that way on RTT.
 

swt_passenger

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Having a separate tiploc and stanox location code for split level stations is normal - Lichfield, Galton Bridge and Tamworth all have it. What normally happens is that information sites such as National Rail, Traksy and RTT create a station group under the common three-letter retail code, which for Worcestershire parkway is WOP. I've got that set up on Traksy now, and it looks like it also works that way on RTT.
Is it possible RTT’s linking has gone wrong from 16 Dec then?
 

takno

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Is it possible RTT’s linking has gone wrong from 16 Dec then?
Ahh, I see what you mean, so the High Level Tiploc is (probably wrongly) not being used in current schedules and is after December 8th.

Traksy will still do the grouping after then, but it has been manually set up. It's possible that RTT just need to add the WOP retail code onto the WORCPHL tiploc. I think you can get in touch with Tom on the RTT website to report that
 

swt_passenger

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Ahh, I see what you mean, so the High Level Tiploc is (probably wrongly) not being used in current schedules and is after December 8th.

Traksy will still do the grouping after then, but it has been manually set up. It's possible that RTT just need to add the WOP retail code onto the WORCPHL tiploc. I think you can get in touch with Tom on the RTT website to report that
It’s all interesting stuff, I hadn’t appreciated exactly how many situations like this there might be, and not just high and low levels as you mentioned earlier?

Is it still the case at Reading, where platforms 4A/4B sometimes show in opentraintimes as a separate origin or destination, and I think Waterloo International was a separate location in some sites, that presumably had to be merged?
 

takno

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It’s all interesting stuff, I hadn’t appreciated exactly how many situations like this there might be, and not just high and low levels as you mentioned earlier?

Is it still the case at Reading, where platforms 4A/4B sometimes show in opentraintimes as a separate origin or destination, and I think Waterloo International was a separate location in some sites, that presumably had to be merged?
There are codes at Waterloo for international, suburban, main line, and Windsor Side, but all trains are actually running under a single code WATRLMN. You can investigate further on Traksy by putting a + in front of the station name you are typing in order to get the tiploc-based locations, and then selecting "Trains" to see what's running. I fear we're drifting off topic though, so best left there!
 
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