Do customers take services for granted?

PaulMc7 · 10 Aug 2019

I've seen a lot of reaction to First service cuts especially over the last few years and all I ever see in response to them is people saying how much they need them and use them. The main reason for cuts is low passenger usage so this makes me wonder if customers really do take things for granted as if they think their services won't ever be cut or if companies just cut them too quickly.

The 2 and 16 among First's latest changes have both lead to backlash and I also remember a lot to the 4/4A when they were cut back from Knightswood to Broomhill.

What do you guys think?

RailUK Forums

route101 · 10 Aug 2019

Suppose if the 31 stopped serving EK i would be inconvenienced .

PaulMc7 · 10 Aug 2019

route101 said:
Suppose if the 31 stopped serving EK i would be inconvenienced .

Can't imagine that ever happening tbh. At most the SPT journeys have been swapped but even that's been rare. They didn't really last with Stagecoach

175mph · 11 Aug 2019

I take the Scunthorpe to Hull 350 route for granted, given it's every 30 minutes frequency Monday to Saturday and it's use of Enviro 300 MMCs.

PaulMc7 · 11 Aug 2019

175mph said:
I take the Scunthorpe to Hull 350 route for granted, given it's every 30 minutes frequency Monday to Saturday and it's use of Enviro 300 MMCs.

Aw not too bad. I think I take where I stay for granted sometimes because the buses close to me are very frequent

Andyh82 · 11 Aug 2019

You haven’t said what town you are talking about, the 2 and 16 where?

PaulMc7 · 11 Aug 2019

Andyh82 said:
You haven’t said what town you are talking about, the 2 and 16 where?

Glasgow

Simon75 · 11 Aug 2019

First Potteries get bad publicity via 'The Sentinel ' newspaper ( every round if changes appear in the paper)
Comments/understanding from locals include
* not understanding First are a business to make money
* its public transport and therefore they should run it at a loss
* First should be 'kicked ' out in running buses by the council
* think First get loads of subsidies from Stoke on Trent and Staffordshire councils

PaulMc7 · 11 Aug 2019

Simon75 said:
First Potteries get bad publicity via 'The Sentinel ' newspaper ( every round if changes appear in the paper)
Comments/understanding from locals include
* not understanding First are a business to make money
* its public transport and therefore they should run it at a loss
* First should be 'kicked ' out in running buses by the council
* think First get loads of subsidies from Stoke on Trent and Staffordshire councils

Yeah the local papers here in Glasgow get that a lot too tbh. Worrying how many people don't have a basic grasp of how businesses operate plus a lot of people just want what suits them and nobody else

wlbusser · 11 Aug 2019

I see people complain about service cuts or changes to services a lot. Usually, it's the same old "But I see it busy" or "X, Y, Z persons use it a lot"

Most of the time I feel as though services are cut for a valid reason, one example being low patronage making it too costly to run a service. Yes, you might see a busy bus several times a day, but if it's dead for the rest of the time then there's one problem.

I feel like it's less of an issue in major towns/cities with a number of regular bus services, whereby if one service is cut or changed you still have options available.
Living somewhere with limited buses, or just not as good bus services all around doesn't help. IMO unless it's a major cut/change then I think "Shame" but that's just how it goes.

PaulMc7 · 11 Aug 2019

wlbusser said:
I see people complain about service cuts or changes to services a lot. Usually, it's the same old "But I see it busy" or "X, Y, Z persons use it a lot"

Most of the time I feel as though services are cut for a valid reason, one example being low patronage making it too costly to run a service. Yes, you might see a busy bus several times a day, but if it's dead for the rest of the time then there's one problem.

I feel like it's less of an issue in major towns/cities with a number of regular bus services, whereby if one service is cut or changed you still have options available.
Living somewhere with limited buses, or just not as good bus services all around doesn't help. IMO unless it's a major cut/change then I think "Shame" but that's just how it goes.

Yeah things happen but ultimately if you want a service to stay then it's use it or lose it

scotrail158713 · 11 Aug 2019

I live just outside Edinburgh so use Lothian Buses and East Coast Buses so I think most people in the area take the buses for granted

PaulMc7 · 11 Aug 2019

scotrail158713 said:
I live just outside Edinburgh so use Lothian Buses and East Coast Buses so I think most people in the area take the buses for granted

Yeah I use First Glasgow but I used Mcgills for college before and I didn't appreciate the fact the buses of theirs I used ran beside my college whereas with the train to Gilmour Street or by First Glasgow 9 I had a walk to do instead

cnjb8 · 11 Aug 2019

Yes. The L2 in Nottingham was diverted a few years ago for residents at this big new estate, when I walk through the area, the L2 is empty apart from peaks which arebfull of Business Park workers.

PeterC · 12 Aug 2019

cnjb8 said:
Yes. The L2 in Nottingham was diverted a few years ago for residents at this big new estate, when I walk through the area, the L2 is empty apart from peaks which arebfull of Business Park workers.

Too many people expect services that they don't intend to use on a regular bases to be there as a reassurance that everything is as it should be. Buses are one example, pubs are a bigger one.

scotrail158713 · 12 Aug 2019

PeterC said:
Too many people expect services that they don't intend to use on a regular bases to be there as a reassurance that everything is as it should be. Buses are one example, pubs are a bigger one.

Libraries are another one. I make an effort to use my local one as it has already had its opening hours reduced considerably - due to low usage. The thing is that most people just use it for the toilet whilst at the park. If it was to shut there would be a huge protest - but most of the people protesting probably wouldn’t have used it for books for ages.

AlbertBeale · 12 Aug 2019

scotrail158713 said:
Libraries are another one. I make an effort to use my local one as it has already had its opening hours reduced considerably - due to low usage. The thing is that most people just use it for the toilet whilst at the park. If it was to shut there would be a huge protest - but most of the people protesting probably wouldn’t have used it for books for ages.

I expect both buses and libraries (and public toilets) to exist as essential public services in a civilised country - I don't consider I should be seen as a "customer" in either instance.

PaulMc7 · 12 Aug 2019

AlbertBeale said:
I expect both buses and libraries (and public toilets) to exist as essential public services in a civilised country - I don't consider I should be seen as a "customer" in either instance.

Public transport that's ran by private companies will always have you seen as a customer but yeah libraries and toilets especially if they're public shouldn't ever be like that

Darklord8899 · 12 Aug 2019

Human nature is a complex beast to deal with....
We all take things for granted......
I've seen time and time again, when an operator announces service changes, that there are public responses of "outrage" or the changes are "scandalous" and such emotions..... yet, I have a feeling that most of them probably never use the service to any great extent, or else why would it be getting cut back?

I also think the average person forgets that a bus operator is a business, trying to make money, just like a lawyer, a pub, a supermarket, a take away shop or fashion shop.

Not bus related, but does illustrate how fickle and contradictory "public opinion" is ....

A good number of years a go, a group of local residents campaigned their their local large chain supermarket to expand.....
...so after some discussions etc a plan was lodged with the council to do a modest extension to the property, giving the locals what they wanted.....
......or so you'd think......
When the plans went to consultation, the same resident's group that lobbied for the extension, then voted against the plans as it would cause "an unacceptable level of extra traffic and large delivery vehicles to the streets in the immediate vacinity of the store"

As the saying goes..... you can't please everyone all of the time

PaulMc7 · 12 Aug 2019

Darklord8899 said:
Human nature is a complex beast to deal with....
We all take things for granted......
I've seen time and time again, when an operator announces service changes, that there are public responses of "outrage" or the changes are "scandalous" and such emotions..... yet, I have a feeling that most of them probably never use the service to any great extent, or else why would it be getting cut back?

I also think the average person forgets that a bus operator is a business, trying to make money, just like a lawyer, a pub, a supermarket, a take away shop or fashion shop.

Not bus related, but does illustrate how fickle and contradictory "public opinion" is ....

A good number of years a go, a group of local residents campaigned their their local large chain supermarket to expand.....
...so after some discussions etc a plan was lodged with the council to do a modest extension to the property, giving the locals what they wanted.....
......or so you'd think......
When the plans went to consultation, the same resident's group that lobbied for the extension, then voted against the plans as it would cause "an unacceptable level of extra traffic and large delivery vehicles to the streets in the immediate vacinity of the store"

As the saying goes..... you can't please everyone all of the time

This 100%. So few people actually have a grasp of business and financial costs and it's pretty worrying. Doesn't help that people change their minds constantly about what they want too. Knightswood residents excel at being fickle. Wanted a quicker route to the city centre, the X4 started and now it's pretty empty outside peak times

Darklord8899 · 12 Aug 2019

PaulMc7 said:
This 100%. So few people actually have a grasp of business and financial costs and it's pretty worrying. Doesn't help that people change their minds constantly about what they want too. Knightswood residents excel at being fickle. Wanted a quicker route to the city centre, the X4 started and now it's pretty empty outside peak times

Aye, that sounds about right ... and they will be "outraged" by the "scandalous " cut of the off peak service ..... that they aren't using

PaulMc7 · 12 Aug 2019

Darklord8899 said:
Aye, that sounds about right ... and they will be "outraged" by the "scandalous " cut of the off peak service ..... that they aren't using

Case in point the 2 and 16 cuts for next week. Seen newspaper articles of said outrage for both

AlbertBeale · 12 Aug 2019

PaulMc7 said:
This 100%. So few people actually have a grasp of business and financial costs and it's pretty worrying. Doesn't help that people change their minds constantly about what they want too. Knightswood residents excel at being fickle. Wanted a quicker route to the city centre, the X4 started and now it's pretty empty outside peak times

Remember it might not be that people don't "have a grasp of business", but they think that business principles are the wrong things on which to base a public transport service.

PaulMc7 · 12 Aug 2019

AlbertBeale said:
Remember it might not be that people don't "have a grasp of business", but they think that business principles are the wrong things on which to base a public transport service.

If it's ran by a private company though it's not a thing that can really apply. I could understand the outrage if it was council ran and this was happening but when it's a private company it's use or lose it

AlbertBeale · 12 Aug 2019

PaulMc7 said:
If it's ran by a private company though it's not a thing that can really apply. I could understand the outrage if it was council ran and this was happening but when it's a private company it's use or lose it

That's my point - public services shouldn't be run by private companies who take decisions on commercial grounds.

telstarbox · 12 Aug 2019

And in some parts of the UK buses are still publicly run.

Andyh82 · 12 Aug 2019

I always find it amusing that people complain about the private bus firms and want it to be run by the council

The same people probably endlessly complain about the council as well, for not emptying the bins, or filling in the potholes etc

PaulMc7 · 12 Aug 2019

Andyh82 said:
I always find it amusing that people complain about the private bus firms and want it to be run by the council

The same people probably endlessly complain about the council as well, for not emptying the bins, or filling in the potholes etc

People complain about everything Glasgow City Council and West Dunbartonshire do tbh. Last thing buses in Glasgow need right now is to be public run again

AlbertBeale · 12 Aug 2019

Andyh82 said:
I always find it amusing that people complain about the private bus firms and want it to be run by the council

The same people probably endlessly complain about the council as well, for not emptying the bins, or filling in the potholes etc

There's nothing inconsistent about wanting essential public services to be controlled publicly and democratically, while also criticising inadequacies in public services. It's by engaging - and complaining - that democracy asserts itself. With private companies, people's views are irrelevant if they clash with owners' profits.

PaulMc7 · 12 Aug 2019

AlbertBeale said:
There's nothing inconsistent about wanting essential public services to be controlled publicly and democratically, while also criticising inadequacies in public services. It's by engaging - and complaining - that democracy asserts itself. With private companies, people's views are irrelevant if they clash with owners' profits.

The problem with Glasgow is that because of the number of people there's going to be far too many conflicting views. There would need to be some sort of panel you could contact with what you need and even at that it'll only be the most common suggestions that get used

Do customers take services for granted?

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