Grand Central held at Hitchin running early

Travelling on a grand central service this evening 17:06 from york and were running early only train in front was 1A41 so had a pretty clear run. Slowed down approaching hitchin and stopped at signal I assume this was because it was around 3 1/2 early. Looking on Traksy 2R55 was on the slows and behind was 1T51 which switched to the fast line after hitchin. Eventually set off 1L only to be put behind 2R55 at woolmer green now running 3L.

I see there is a lot of time added into the schedule relating to why it was early.

Is this a normal procedure to do holding an early train to make it on time even though it wouldn’t of clashed with another service? Would be interesting to know why this is the case.


Cheers

Any train could be held to stay in its allotted path. This is particularly the case for an open access operator whose path is interweeved with TOC paths.

Bear in mind that if your service went past Hitchin early then a train joining the fast from the Cambridge Branch would potentially be delayed.

Therefore better to let both trains run on time.

Looks like the Grand Central is booked to arrive Kings Cross Platform 7 at 1909 - the previous departure from P7 being the 1900 departure to Newcastle...so if given priority there'd be a risk of turning up early at Kings Cross without the booked platform being available thus blocking everything else up.

At what point does ARS kick in and do its thing or either not recognising the service (because it's running out of course (early)). Or deciding that it shouldn't be running early and to stop it?

It does seem though that dealing with the train this way managed to make a train running 3 early into one that arrived at its destination 3 late.

Think its luck of the draw, as couple weeks back did London-Bradford return on Grand Central, the return train 14.51 Bradford-Kings Cross arrived about 10 mins early as the proceeding LNER train from Doncaster, which came from Leeds was about 20 late so left behind us, so we slotted into decent path, apart from slowing, on approach to Peterborough, for a Thameslink train to cross us and arrive Peterborough we had pretty much clear run, and ran straight into Kings Cross pretty much, so its just how other trains are running on the day.

I seem to recall a Grand Central OBM saying GNER trains generally have priority as they pay more for the paths.

I used to get annoyed that a Southend service also stopping at Stratford was allowed out in front of my Intercity that could've had a fast run through Shenfield until it was explained that holding the suburban service back even longer would have caused it to fail PPM as had to arrive Liv St no more than 4m59 late whereas my longer distance service had a 9m59 window & thus we both still achieved PPM this way.

Pluto said:

I seem to recall a Grand Central OBM saying GNER trains generally have priority as they pay more for the paths.

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I don't believe that's how regulation works.

jopsuk said:

It does seem though that dealing with the train this way managed to make a train running 3 early into one that arrived at its destination 3 late.

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Is this due to the time taken to bring a train to a stand and then back up to speed. And while getting back up to speed it could be on restrictive aspects.

asharpe said:

Is this due to the time taken to bring a train to a stand and then back up to speed. And while getting back up to speed it could be on restrictive aspects.

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I suspect, partly to blame.
The time taken from a stand can be much longer than if running on restricted aspects - to getback to running speed.
It depends why it was brought to a stand; what was ahead of it (and how far ahead it was); and how fast it was moving.

Joe96 said:

Travelling on a grand central service this evening 17:06 from york and were running early only train in front was 1A41 so had a pretty clear run. Slowed down approaching hitchin and stopped at signal I assume this was because it was around 3 1/2 early. Looking on Traksy 2R55 was on the slows and behind was 1T51 which switched to the fast line after hitchin. Eventually set off 1L only to be put behind 2R55 at woolmer green now running 3L.

I see there is a lot of time added into the schedule relating to why it was early.

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It appears that 2R55 (1817 Royston - Kings X) as the cause of stopping your GC 1A68 (1529 Sunderland - Kings X) stopping north of Hitchin.
2R55 started 4 late, running 4L as it rolled into Hitchin, delaying 1T51 (1747 Ely - Kings X, started ontime at Cambridge) behind it. Itself being 3H late at Hitchin (18/41H vice booked 18/38); 4L Stevenage (18/45 vice booked 18/41H) - as you observed it following 2R55 up to Hitchin South Jn where it joined the up fast line.
1T51 was put onto the fast ahead of your GC, incurring the 4 lost minutes between Hitchin and Stevenage for the GC.
In order for 2R55 to stand a chance of making PPM, it was then put out infront of your GC at Woolmer Green. As I see it, all three ended up making PPM (just).

I suspect, had 1A68 been allowed to run early thru Hitchin and Stevenage it would have further delayed 1T51 joining the fast at Hitchin South Jn, which may have further delayed 2R55 at Woolmer Green Jn:
1A68 (estimated) at Hitchin 18/40-41; Stevenage 18/42-43 if it's early running maintained. Hitchin 18/42; Stevenage 18/44 if it had returned to booked time. If it was booked time, 1T51 would have incurred further delay.
As at Woolmer Green Jn -
1T51 18/47
2R55 18/49
1A68 18/51

1A68 also lost more time behind 2R55 as it stopped at Wellyn North, with 2R55 finishing at Kings X only 1 late.
1T51 made Kings X 4 late.
1A68 made Kings X 4 late.

800002 said:

At what point does ARS kick in and do its thing or either not recognising the service (because it's running out of course (early)). Or deciding that it shouldn't be running early and to stop it?

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ARS doesn’t work like that. It doesn’t recognise pathing time, it is simply aware of what potentially conflicting moves are approaching a junction and regulates accordingly, within the confines of its ‘visible horizon’. There is a timetable planning technique to enforce a booked slot (an ‘A stop’ for those who recognise the terminology) but this requires the appropriate timing point at the junction signal and bespoke sectional running times.

In this case, assuming the schedule doesn’t have an A stop, I suspect the signaller manually intervened. If integrated traffic management ever becomes a thing, it may give ARS the extra capability to make the decision on its own.