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Planned engineering works and sporting events: do the relevant authorise liase to avoid clashes?

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silverfoxcc

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IIRC someone on here, hopefully one who involved with the job, said that planned works are done two years in advance.
One question ..Are these set in stone, because if they are i will be getting on to the FA to get the brain cell working and liaise with the Anglia Division to get Spurs home games scheduled for weekend when there isnt any!!

Previous to moving to Wembley it seemed every other week there were closures. and if this two years is true, even one year would be nice, with the extra possible 30k travelling to coincide with closure of either of the nearest lines is stupidity of the first water

I know that incidents cannot be accounted for ( there was one on the only line working yesterday causing some problems but credit to the guys who got a service running by about 17.20) It is where rthing could be done, but no one wants to admit to it!! ( More FA that network rail)
 
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Or Spurs could have not declared they were having events at short notice (having had much of the engineering work already moved to suit them) when they were more than aware of the closures. Most of the main closures for now will be done by start of next season with the WA third track complete.
 
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The Planner

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The FA, Wembley are all party to the plans NR make, if they or Sky want to make changes close to when the work is done then blame them. Engineering Access Statement is published the best part of a year out. The confirmed period posssssion plan is done 26 weeks out, operators bid 18 weeks out, tickets available 12 weeks out but we have done this one before.
 
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mmh

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The FA have nothing to do with the scheduling of Spurs's league games at Wembley, beyond that they own it and if there's an american football match or concert scheduled it obviously isn't available for them, but won't be unused.

With very few exceptions, the blame should be with the premier league. If Tottenham weren't doing so well, almost every game would be a Saturday afternoon. They have done well, so they're on telly all the time with the disruption that causes.

Then you could blame Tottenham themselves for still playing at Wembley. Lots of their supporters do!
 
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yorkie

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mmh said:
...With very few exceptions, the blame should be with the premier league....
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Very true. But the Premier League don't generally consider engineering works when scheduling games. Things like when is the best time for TV are the deciding factors.

It is assumed (rightly or wrongly!) that spectators will just have to accept additional journey time and inconvenience due to taking alternative routes. I don't think this will change anytime soon.
 
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6Gman

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silverfoxcc said:
IIRC someone on here, hopefully one who involved with the job, said that planned works are done two years in advance.
One question ..Are these set in stone, because if they are i will be getting on to the FA to get the brain cell working and liaise with the Anglia Division to get Spurs home games scheduled for weekend when there isnt any!!

Previous to moving to Wembley it seemed every other week there were closures. and if this two years is true, even one year would be nice, with the extra possible 30k travelling to coincide with closure of either of the nearest lines is stupidity of the first water

I know that incidents cannot be accounted for ( there was one on the only line working yesterday causing some problems but credit to the guys who got a service running by about 17.20) It is where rthing could be done, but no one wants to admit to it!! ( More FA that network rail)
Click to expand...

I'm confused. Surely it's the club, the Premier League and the television companies rather than the FA?
 
14xxDave

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Hmm don't get me started on the FA. They used to be a great organisation but now just seem to be a group that accept money and pay themselves lots. The power is the greed that is television advertising and the clubs who use this as one of their major incomes. Football is now a massive business not a sport. I'm quite sad about that.
D.
 
14xxDave

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6Gman said:
I'm confused. Surely it's the club, the Premier League and the television companies rather than the FA?
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Yup, but the FA once had the power to control such things for the benefit of the fans. Not anymore as far as I can see :'(
 
306024

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Usually planned engineering work is first on the graph, the sporting event comes along later. There have been examples of the sporting event then being moved, but they are few and far between. For example a West Ham fixture (when they played at Upton Park) was once moved due to a major bridge job near Bromley-by-Bow that closed both c2c and the District line.

As has been said before, Spurs were considered to have the largest number of passengers using National Rail, and that was before the new ground was built. Coping with 60,000 fans on match day will be an interesting challenge with both the Southbury Loop and the Lea Valley open, never mind if one or the other is closed. It may be quicker to walk all the way to Seven Sisters tube station where the Victoria line can absorb passengers far quicker that either White Hart Lane or Northumberland Park.
 
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Where there are regular large sporting events, planned works are done around them. Think Cup Finals, rugby internationals, major horse racing carnivals, Great North Run etc.
What seems to be the issue is sporting bodies moving fixtures late notice, or when the event is new(ish) and the plannners don’t realise it’s on, such as the Great Stirling Run last year when the railway was closed to demolish a bridge, and the logical alternative route for traffic was being used for the race!
Sitting on a bus for over an hour to get home didn’t do my legs any good...
 
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I’m sure I read something that said that one of the Brighton mainline weekend blocks had been rescheduled because Brighton & Hove Albion were still in the FA cup and it would allow more supporters to get to Wembley by rail. TBH, given the differing planning horizons NR and the FA/Premier League/Broadcasters use, NR do well to avoid most of the big fixtures. Predictable things like the Grand National, 6 Nations rugby and the various marathon type events must be much easier than dealing with football.
 
Mikey C

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306024 said:
Usually planned engineering work is first on the graph, the sporting event comes along later. There have been examples of the sporting event then being moved, but they are few and far between. For example a West Ham fixture (when they played at Upton Park) was once moved due to a major bridge job near Bromley-by-Bow that closed both c2c and the District line.

As has been said before, Spurs were considered to have the largest number of passengers using National Rail, and that was before the new ground was built. Coping with 60,000 fans on match day will be an interesting challenge with both the Southbury Loop and the Lea Valley open, never mind if one or the other is closed. It may be quicker to walk all the way to Seven Sisters tube station where the Victoria line can absorb passengers far quicker that either White Hart Lane or Northumberland Park.
Click to expand...

I've always thought that a lot of fans previously walked from Seven Sisters anyway
 
Mikey C

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I imagine they'll consider the number of people going to the event too

For a couple of years with the London Bridge Thameslink work AND the Abbey Road Crossrail work, Charlton had a very poor service for weekend matches. Really annoying, but understandable given the scale of the work and the need to maintain weekday services though
 
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The WCML has had a "we do not operate at Bank Holiday weekends" policy for several years - or maybe decades if you think back to WCRM.
Yes, there is usually some sort of intermediate service (eg Preston/Manchester/Liverpool-Milton Keynes via Birmingham), but through service is impossible.
Chester/Holyheads are always cut back to Crewe, with no thought of decent connections.
Preston-Carlisle and Carlisle-Glasgow/Edinburgh, or both, are frequent casualties, with TPE often badly affected as well as VT.
The policy seems to be to close the lot and get multiple work sites going on the route, use other routes if you must travel.
This is tolerable if you want London from Birmingham or Glasgow/Edinburgh, but is pretty miserable if you live elsewhere.
So if your sporting event happens to be on a bank holiday weekend, you can forget reaching it via the WCML.
Every now and again the Cup Final gets tangled up in this, depending on who gets to the final.
 
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silverfoxcc

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Have no problem with the test events last weekend, and TV kick off times are only changed either to a early or late KO on thes ame day or move it to the Sunday, of the same weekend So it should't make much difference.
Are the planned engineering works in the public domain at all. Itwould be interesting to see if there is any cooperation in trying to get games to fit
 
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The Planner

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silverfoxcc said:
Have no problem with the test events last weekend, and TV kick off times are only changed either to a early or late KO on thes ame day or move it to the Sunday, of the same weekend So it should't make much difference.
Are the planned engineering works in the public domain at all. Itwould be interesting to see if there is any cooperation in trying to get games to fit
Click to expand...
Yes, the engineering access statement can be downloaded off the NR website.
 
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If they were worried about people catching trains to sporting events, then sporting events wouldn't be held on Boxing Day
 
Mikey C

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A bit annoying that engineering works decimated the service to Charlton yesterday - just 2 an hour instead of the usual 8 with no service via Greenwich - for our first home game of the season, especially as being back in the Championship our crowds are larger and more away fans will be going (Stoke yesterday).

Yes football isn't the main criteria in scheduling engineering works, but they have had all summer to do it! Or could have picked a Saturday when we're not at home
 
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Mikey C said:
A bit annoying that engineering works decimated the service to Charlton yesterday - just 2 an hour instead of the usual 8 with no service via Greenwich - for our first home game of the season, especially as being back in the Championship our crowds are larger and more away fans will be going (Stoke yesterday).

Yes football isn't the main criteria in scheduling engineering works, but they have had all summer to do it! Or could have picked a Saturday when we're not at home
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Or the FA could have not scheduled a match that clashes with engineering works? Would have been more helpful tbh
 
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Mikey C said:
A bit annoying that engineering works decimated the service to Charlton yesterday - just 2 an hour instead of the usual 8 with no service via Greenwich - for our first home game of the season, especially as being back in the Championship our crowds are larger and more away fans will be going (Stoke yesterday).

Yes football isn't the main criteria in scheduling engineering works, but they have had all summer to do it! Or could have picked a Saturday when we're not at home
Click to expand...

Have you not read any of this thread?
 
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Not railway related, but an upcoming Portsmouth FC game has been suspended as there’s also the ‘Victorious’ music festival in town the same weekend. The music festival has been August bank holiday since it started 5 years ago. I believe Hampshire police made a request to the club and the EFL
 
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silverfoxcc

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But trains used to run on Boxing day. However it seems driver now work 9-5 M-F and everything else is dependent on them wanting to do o/t!! ( said with tongue in cheek before anyones blood pressure rises)
 
DarloRich

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pompeyfan said:
Not railway related, but an upcoming Portsmouth FC game has been suspended as there’s also the ‘Victorious’ music festival in town the same weekend. The music festival has been August bank holiday since it started 5 years ago. I believe Hampshire police made a request to the club and the EFL
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that is a fairly standard request often dealt with at the time of the fixtures being drawn up
 
EM2

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silverfoxcc said:
But trains used to run on Boxing day. However it seems driver now work 9-5 M-F and everything else is dependent on them wanting to do o/t!! ( said with tongue in cheek before anyones blood pressure rises)
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Yes, trains used to run on Boxing Day. But then so many people started travelling by car, that almost no-one was using the trains.
 
Mikey C

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Timrud said:
Charlton hardly get any fans, one of the smallest London clubs.
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Well over 17000 there yesterday, hardly minor numbers in transport terms, including 2500 from Stoke

Mag_seven said:
Possessions are booked in months before hand, long before the fixture list is compiled.
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They know when the season starts though.

And yes I am quite aware of the complications of running a railway, but sometimes it doesn't exactly seem to bend over backwards to be helpful to its customers.
 
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