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Class 800 upgrades to address performance and reliability issues

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800002

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The issues months back involved 800s which are not Dawlish proof unlike 802s.

Which units were involved yesterday?

What makes the 802 Dawlish 'resistant' ?(I'm going to say, tentatively. - Mother nature is, well Erm is, Mother Nature).
 
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Goldfish62

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Which units were involved yesterday?

What makes the 802 Dawlish 'resistant' ?(I'm going to say, tentatively. - Mother nature is, well Erm is, Mother Nature).
Resistor banks raised up so they don't get flooded.
 

irish_rail

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Agreed - certainly worrying considering it was part of the orginial spec - to avoid such incidence as with Cross Country currently - was it not? (I can't recall recall the specifics)

Might be helpful (for observers, here) to know what the weather report / status (err, is it Infrastructure readiness report still? (Or something to that effect)) was for early yesterday morning.

Hopefully it was Red or very serious (whatever the report gives -icant recall).
I wasn't there but apparently stormy enough for voyager cancellations.
 

father_jack

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GWR having influence over the base specification of the train is a different thing to needing to have to sign off third-party modifications to trains it operates under its safety case.
Were you once sacked by GWR or something? Only your irrational crusade against every move they make is bizarre.
You need to attack the post and not the poster, he could have said the reverse to you. But he hasn't......
 

Geoff DC

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Impractical, not going to happen. They were minor errors which Hitachi will look into.

The issues months back involved 800s which are not Dawlish proof unlike 802s.

XC still using HSTs - If you have a better suggestion I am all ears - over to you
 

a_c_skinner

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Hitachi are obviously concerned.

Were these 800s (OP said IETs) not 802s? If the latter they were specified as needing to be Dawlish tolerant were they not? If the former retrofitting seems rational for inter-availability, though of course it won't happen.
 

northernbelle

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You need to attack the post and not the poster, he could have said the reverse to you. But he hasn't......
I think you need to go back over the last few years and look at this individual's responses to many forum members - I think you'll find they have over a prolonged period of time.
 

CharlesR

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Were these 800s (OP said IETs) not 802s? If the latter they were specified as needing to be Dawlish tolerant were they not? If the former retrofitting seems rational for inter-availability, though of course it won't happen.

They were 802/1 units.
 

Thunderer

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They were 802/1 units.
Oh dear! Back to the drawing board then for a solution? Hitachi will have to come up with something and quickly to combat this issue for the 802's. I expect the sea water got into the under floor engines? Was that the case?
 

Clarence Yard

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Hitachi are taking a lot of interest in what happened as it shouldn’t have. What exactly got knocked out on the GU and why has not yet been divulged.
 

800002

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They were 802/1 units.
Oh dear.
Plenty of possible (and plausible) reasons I suspect.

Mother Nature trumps all - again.

Also, not surprised their not divulging info - high potential for a lot of backlash, given current events.

It can't be the first time 'Red' has been declared while the units have been running.

Shall wait and see what occurs.
 

CharlesR

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Oh dear.
Plenty of possible (and plausible) reasons I suspect.

Mother Nature trumps all - again.

Also, not surprised their not divulging info - high potential for a lot of backlash, given current events.

It can't be the first time 'Red' has been declared while the units have been running.

Shall wait and see what occurs.

I’m sure that Hitachi and GWR will get it sorted for later in the year when it will affect services the most. Cannot be any worse than Voyagers.
 

800002

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I’m sure that Hitachi and GWR will get it sorted for later in the year when it will affect services the most. Cannot be any worse than Voyagers.
Yes, I'm sure they will.

Just out of interest - is there a specific delay code to be used for cancelling / part cancelling the Voyagers when required?
^General question to all :)

*EDIT: Scratch that - it would be 'MW' -
Weather - effect on T&RS equipment Wouldn't it.
 
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a_c_skinner

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I am usually intolerant of an inability to deliver new trains that work properly but I can imagine the conditions at Dawlish are difficult to simulate.
 

Goldfish62

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I’m sure that Hitachi and GWR will get it sorted for later in the year when it will affect services the most. Cannot be any worse than Voyagers.
They had better get it sorted because even if it's no worse than the Voyagers the potential disruption every time there's an adverse weather forecast doesn't bear thinking about.
 

father_jack

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Did a pair of 5 car 800s yesterday and as well as the chronic dirty seat and carpet affliction one of the vestibules had no carpet in it !!!
 

Sean Emmett

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14.55 ex Pembroke Dock 800 014 arrived Swansea P2 but no unit to couple up to so taken out of service.

800s 008 and 006 off Maliphant into P1 to take over. At least the stopper is well ahead. Away 19 mins late.

Swansea - Neath 9m 20s. Driver keen to make up time.
 

jimm

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The issues months back involved 800s which are not Dawlish proof unlike 802s.

Just noticed this. The 800s are meant to be Dawlish-proof, at least in terms of it being a design requirement to avoid the problems that make Voyagers break when they get a salt water shower. Class 800s were always intended by the DfT to work as far as Paignton.

From Page 24 of the IEP technical specification

Full Functionality of the IEP Trains must be maintained during and after exposure to salt water spray and such exposure must not cause excessive cosmetic degradation of exposed surfaces, components and equipment.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...s/attachment_data/file/82840/tts-redacted.pdf

But it probably depends on exactly what hits the train - just a sprinkle of salt water seems able to kill a Voyager. Incidents with IETs are not exactly 10 a penny, when plenty of trains cop a lot more than just a sprinkling on a rough day at Dawlish.

And not strictly Class 800-related, as the service is booked for a Class 802, but the 06.42 from Hereford to Paddington on Wednesday showed what they are capable of on diesel power - aided by the signallers giving a badly-delayed train a clear run through Worcester.

The train was 35 minutes late leaving Hereford, due to the empty stock being delayed on the way from Stoke Gifford. On departure from Oxford it was just 10 minutes late.and recovered another minute between there and Paddington.

Hereford to Paddington in 2 hours 39 minutes, with 15 station stops
Worcester Shrub Hill to Paddington in 1 hour 4 minutes, with 9 station stops

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20786/2019/08/07/advanced

The speeded-up 06.43 from December will be allowed 2hrs 54 minutes, compared with the current HST-based timing of 3 hours 4 minutes.

Before anyone goes 'HSTs used to do it in 2 hours 50 minutes in 1990' - or whatever it was, this service and the 05.28 from Hereford have had four additional calls at Pershore, Honeybourne, Hanborough and Reading added since the mid-2000s.
 

47519

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Whilst 1h47m from Worcester to Paddington seems good, it looks to me like it ran non-stop from Worcester to Oxford (the following 0825 Foregate St. to Paddington would be only twenty minutes behind). I suggest 54 minutes for 57 miles with seven stops is not realistic. RTT on manually signalled routes is always a problem, but three minutes from the six miles from Charlbury to Hanborough would be interesting!
 

jimm

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Whilst 1h47m from Worcester to Paddington seems good, it looks to me like it ran non-stop from Worcester to Oxford (the following 0825 Foregate St. to Paddington would be only twenty minutes behind). I suggest 54 minutes for 57 miles with seven stops is not realistic. RTT on manually signalled routes is always a problem, but three minutes from the six miles from Charlbury to Hanborough would be interesting!

My well be the case then, but as there are no devices or staff to track progress at Hanborough anyway (unless using an onboard GPS fix), any times shown on any system for that station should be taken with a pinch of salt, whatever the circumstances.

And that service (and others) usually spend a cumulative 10 minutes or so sitting in the platform at the stations between Worcester and Oxford, after arriving early and having to wait for departure time, so a substantial time leaving would have been perfectly feasible without leaving lots of passengers behind.
 
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Mintona

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21m 59s stop to stop Reading to Swindon yesterday on a pair of 802s. Definitely my fastest journey yet.
 

class26

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Being down in Cornwall last week on the annual break and only having previously sampled an 800 between Reading and Slough I decided to travel along to Cornish mainline between St Austell and Penzance and here are a few observations. The return journey from Penzance to St Austell I split first taking a Castle to Redruth to compare performance and then the following 800 to St Austell I also travelled from Par to Newquay by 802

All journeys were by 802 except the split journey mentioned above. All 802`s i saw were 10 cars except the return from Newquay (15.07 off Newquay) but that might have coupled up to another until at Plymouth ? I hope so as it was fairly full leaving Newquay and there were 14 more stops !

My first journey to Penzance was on time and at every stop arrived approx 2 - 3 minutes ahead of schedule and had to wait time. The timetable can be tightened up definitely.
Acceleration is good and i was surprised when on the Castle how sluggish this felt. the HST only just kept to time with nothing to spare whereas, as i said the 800`s were arriving well ahead of time, passengers off and new one on, doors closed and still about 2 minutes to wait.

Now the seats. In a word hard. I was determined to be positive and see if it was me and experimented sitting in various positions and if you sit in one way (bolt upright) it isn`t so bad but who wants to sit like this for a whole journey ? So, would it be worth coughing up and paying for first class I wondered ?

On arrival in Penzance after the train had emptied I slipped into the first section and tried out this "luxury". Slightly better than standard until i realised there is the option to recline the seat and then it improves markedly but then at the GWR first class fares so it should !
Conclusion- decent train but so easily could have been much better. Has scope to accelerate the timetable but spoilt by penny pinching on the seats.
 

fgwrich

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View attachment 66661 From facebook..... hopefully this isnt the only train !!!

That doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. One unit I was on last week had half the carpet in the vestibule missing, while another had it’s taped down with the black and yellow tape. Another I had had the stickers in the toilets quite literally crumbling off. While a guard I know rather well has had the CDL panels fall off in his hands (he showed me one in the Set we were travelling in holding on with limited screws). We really do seem to be reaching Bombardier levels of quality control here. But I suppose it’s all part of the “Experience” on GWR these days. Not that the HSTs were perfect, thanks in part to First’s maintenance regime.

Has anyone else noticed the little nips and chips in the panelling already?
 

DannyMich2018

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Well after spending much of the afternoon on the sea wall near Dawlish I observed many Class 802s. I didn't see any single 5 car units, only doubles or 9 cars and they looked really impressive and so much quieter than I expected compared to a noisy voyager or even noisier Meridian 222 or class 185!! Be interesting to travel on one too.
 

Pete_uk

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What's with all the cancelled Cheltenham services this morning (12th August)?

There were some cancellations the day before too.
 
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