• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Trivia: Direct trains to London then and now

Status
Not open for further replies.

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
The HSTs out of Queen Street simply ran in the slot of the normal services so served Polmont or Linlithgow in addition to Falkirk High and Haymarket.

As for the Chieftain, none of the timetables I possess has it calling at Polmont or Linlithgow, but it did used to serve Dunblane and Larbert in some years.

It still serves Dunblane on a Sunday. The sleeper still serves the best place in Scotland on weekdays & Sunday evenings.

In the 1980s the Chieftain left Dunblane at 07:08(?).
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
Settle and Appleby used to have the Thames-Clyde Express to from St Pancras in the mid 70's. Think it went while BR was trying to close the S&C.
I suppose Skipton and Keighley also lost their through train, but they have got the through train to KX now
You beat me too it. I think that finished in 1982, affecting Appleby, Settle and Skipton. I don't think Keighley had a through train, it was just a stop on the Nottingham Glasgow. Could be wrong, will have to check.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,867
Location
Airedale
You beat me too it. I think that finished in 1982, affecting Appleby, Settle and Skipton. I don't think Keighley had a through train, it was just a stop on the Nottingham Glasgow. Could be wrong, will have to check.
The Thames Clyde certainly had a Keighley stop in 1970 - I went to Appleby and back on it!
Shipley and Bradford FS have gained, New Pudsey has lost. Other gains are the GC stops in West Yorks.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
The Thames Clyde certainly had a Keighley stop in 1970 - I went to Appleby and back on it!
Shipley and Bradford FS have gained, New Pudsey has lost. Other gains are the GC stops in West Yorks.
That’s a thought, Bradford interchange is of course a loser. As was Halifax for a bit (until GC came along)
 

Ken H

On Moderation
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,272
Location
N Yorks
That’s a thought, Bradford interchange is of course a loser. As was Halifax for a bit (until GC came along)
when did Halifax have London services? I remember it as just hourly stoppers Lds/Bfd/Man vic in 70's. Only leeds, harrogate, Bradford and Wakefield had through services in 70's I think
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
when did Halifax have London services? I remember it as just hourly stoppers Lds/Bfd/Man vic in 70's. Only leeds, harrogate, Bradford and Wakefield had through services in 70's I think
There was a portion that split at Doncaster off a late night mail / passenger train until the late 1970s. The other part went to Bradford via Leeds. The Halifax bit went via Wakefield kirkgate.
 

Ken H

On Moderation
Joined
11 Nov 2018
Messages
6,272
Location
N Yorks
There was a portion that split at Doncaster off a late night mail / passenger train until the late 1970s. The other part went to Bradford via Leeds. The Halifax bit went via Wakefield kirkgate.
thanks (Wish there was an uptick here)
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,867
Location
Airedale
That’s a thought, Bradford interchange is of course a loser. As was Halifax for a bit (until GC came along)
Was a loser. GC also serve Interchange. Brighouse, Mirfield, Kirkgate (which had the previous Halifax train), Pontefract M are the others.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
12,984
Why would the network have been at it lowest ever ebb in 1980? Just curious?

People who hark back to the good old days would do well to remember the dire position the network was in during the 1980s.

BR did some good work but was massively starved of money by the Government.

It had an awful reputation. Trains were far less frequent, and passenger numbers falling dramatically.

The Serpel Report commissioned by the Government suggested closing much of the network, a sort of Beaching v2. Thankfully this was a Bridge too far, even in the 1980s.

We have a love hate relationship with the railway in this country. Whatever the structure of the industry that will never go away.
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
4,103
Milton Keynes Central has gained quite a few trains to London since 1980 considering it opened in 1982. :lol:

Quite a few Midland Mainline London services have been cut since East Midlands Trains took over but I don't think they were around in the days of British Rail.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
In the May 1975 timetable the following places in Yorkshire / Lincolnshire / the North East had one or more direct trains to / from London, but no longer do (to the best of my knowledge, please correct me if I am wrong)

Goole
Thorne North (yes really, at 13.46 to London, with no return working)
Lincoln St Marks
Market Rasen
Habrough
Barnetby (not on Sundays)
Grimsby Town
Cleethorpes
Stockton (a sleeper from KGX, no less)
Billingham (ditto)
Seaham (ditto)
New Pudsey
Bridlington (summer Saturdays only)
Filey (ditto)
South Elmsall (Saturdays only from London, one train only; also at 22.53 to London every weekday)
Huddersfield (one evening train only, to Halifax; and one on Saturday mornings to London from Bradford Exchange via Halifax)
Settle
Appleby
Rotherham Masborough

Middlesbrough didn't have a direct London service in 1975 - the Tees-Tyne Exec was only introduced later.

Did have a service in 1975, which was lost, then reintroduced by GC:
Bradford Interchange (assuming we regard it as the same as Bradford Exchange, which it isn't quite)
Halifax
Wakefield Kirkgate
Eaglescliffe
Hartlepool
Sunderland

Also Chinley and New Mills Central in Derbyshire on St Pancras - Manchester Piccadilly services, as mentioned on another thread.

Edited to remove "Keighley" which I had accidentally put in.
 
Last edited:

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
People who hark back to the good old days would do well to remember the dire position the network was in during the 1980s.

BR did some good work but was massively starved of money by the Government.

It had an awful reputation. Trains were far less frequent, and passenger numbers falling dramatically.

The Serpel Report commissioned by the Government suggested closing much of the network, a sort of Beaching v2. Thankfully this was a Bridge too far, even in the 1980s.

We have a love hate relationship with the railway in this country. Whatever the structure of the industry that will never go away.
Indeed, the Serpell Report (1982?) was much more severe in its reduction of the network than Beeching was. If it hadn't been so severe, it would probably have been actioned. But it was so severe that it was a political dead duck straight away, thank goodness. Otherwise we would have a passenger rail network like the US, and this forum probably wouldn't exist.
 
Last edited:

Glenn1969

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2019
Messages
1,983
Location
Halifax, Yorks
The now 2330 KGX-Leeds train used to detach a portion for Huddersfield, Halifax and Bradford. It was running in the 70s and 80s because I remember it but I don't know when it stopped
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,180
As did Saltburn and Stockton, but I don’t think any were in the post 1980 period.

Stockton had a through London sleeper service into the 1980s ( as did Billingham, Seaham, Hartlepool and Sunderland). Not exactly sure when it finished, think about 1983 following cuts after the flexible rostering disputes? Through carriages to Saltburn (detached from London trains at Darlington) ceased much earlier, I think on conversion to DMUs in about 1959 or so?
 
Last edited:

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,716
Location
Glasgow
That sounds right could not remember.

I doubled checked just in case I was mistaken and they were there in Winter 2010/11 (7 northbound; 6 southbound) and gone in Summer 2011.

Yes during the 'Eureka!' Timetable change. Amazing that was eight years ago.

It is indeed!

At least Glasgow Central still has a regular London service, unlike Motherwell which no longer has the frequency of services it once had.
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,180
You beat me too it. I think that finished in 1982, affecting Appleby, Settle and Skipton. I don't think Keighley had a through train, it was just a stop on the Nottingham Glasgow. Could be wrong, will have to check.

The Thames-Clyde express was withdrawn in the mid 70s and replaced by the Nottingham-Glasgow service.
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,180
when did Halifax have London services? I remember it as just hourly stoppers Lds/Bfd/Man vic in 70's. Only leeds, harrogate, Bradford and Wakefield had through services in 70's I think

Halifax had direct service by the 'South Yorkshireman' express from Bradford to Marylebone prior to 1960
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,716
Location
Glasgow
It still serves Dunblane on a Sunday. The sleeper still serves the best place in Scotland on weekdays & Sunday evenings.

In the 1980s the Chieftain left Dunblane at 07:08(?).

Summer 1986: 1025 Mon-Sat; 1301 Sun
1988

Summer 1988: 1029 Mon-Sat; 1304 Sun

Sundays only Summer 1990; Winter 1991/2; Summers 1993/5.

Labert had calls each day in 1986/1988 but none after that even on Sundays, so Larbert appears to have lost direct service to London in about 1988/9.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,157
Location
West of Andover
Lost - Westerton
Gained - Dalmuir?

When the Cally Sleeper Fort William portion got rerouted to go via Glasgow Queen Street low level, used to call at Westerton [with a random early morning Queen Street - Westerton Scotrail service to connect]. Can't remember if Dalmuir was served by Cally Sleeper at the time, or did it gain the stop when Westerton was dropped.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,716
Location
Glasgow
Lost - Westerton
Gained - Dalmuir?

When the Cally Sleeper Fort William portion got rerouted to go via Glasgow Queen Street low level, used to call at Westerton [with a random early morning Queen Street - Westerton Scotrail service to connect]. Can't remember if Dalmuir was served by Cally Sleeper at the time, or did it gain the stop when Westerton was dropped.

I can find Westerton being served in 2009, the sleeper called at Dalmuir as well.
 

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
3,905
In the May 1975 timetable the following places in Yorkshire / Lincolnshire / the North East had one or more direct trains to / from London, but no longer do (to the best of my knowledge, please correct me if I am wrong)

Goole
Thorne North (yes really, at 13.46 to London, with no return working)
Lincoln St Marks
Market Rasen
Habrough
Barnetby (not on Sundays)
Grimsby Town
Cleethorpes
Stockton (a sleeper from KGX, no less)
Billingham (ditto)
Seaham (ditto)
New Pudsey
Bridlington (summer Saturdays only)
Filey (ditto)
South Elmsall (Saturdays only from London, one train only; also at 22.53 to London every weekday)
Huddersfield (one evening train only, to Halifax; and one on Saturday mornings to London from Bradford Exchange via Halifax)
Keighley
Settle
Appleby
Rotherham Masborough

Middlesbrough didn't have a direct London service in 1975 - the Tees-Tyne Exec was only introduced later.

Did have a service in 1975, which was lost, then reintroduced by GC:
Bradford Interchange (assuming we regard it as the same as Bradford Exchange, which it isn't quite)
Halifax
Wakefield Kirkgate
Eaglescliffe
Hartlepool
Sunderland

Also Chinley and New Mills Central in Derbyshire on St Pancras - Manchester Piccadilly services, as mentioned on another thread.

Keighley has a daily service to/from London
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top