90019
Established Member
The problem with moving cars off the Mound is that you just move them to Lothian Road and North Bridge, clogging up those junctions and the surrounding ones even more than they already are.
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Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion
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The theory is that sooner or later they will get the message and just give up. Effectively if you reduce the number of buses through town rather than the number of cars you're heading in the wrong direction
Grumpyscot
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Mack in the late 90s, the X5 terminated at Charlotte Square and ran along George Street. Of course, back then they wouldn't let passengers off Eastern / Lowland until after city limits which is the bugbear on the 124 service. Why they don't take it via Milton Road I don't know, as many a time passengers eastbound can't get on for people only going to Northfield / Portobello / Joppa
cnjb8
Established Member
I have a question.
Lothian is owned by councils in the area, if LEZ/CAZ/ULEZ was introduced, do you think it would make more money then Lothian? Bear in mind there has been a lot of spending this year from what I've read.
Lothian is owned by councils in the area, if LEZ/CAZ/ULEZ was introduced, do you think it would make more money then Lothian? Bear in mind there has been a lot of spending this year from what I've read.
I entirely agree with your sentiment of your second sentence, but where do the cars go? People don't drive through the city centre for fun. The grotesque City Centre transformation plan shows Bridges-Leith Street and Lothian Road-Queen Street continuing as primary routes (only the Mound goes) - we don't have the urban motorways and inner relief roads etc that many cities have. Driving from suburb to suburb without going through the centre is really difficult.
The numpties need to learn to manage a mixed economy of active travel, public transport and private transport within limited road space instead of giving absolute priority to active travel.
Steamysandy
Member
When I used to use the 124 to get home to Longniddry you couldn't get on for passengers for Milton Road and in the 70s,they would even get on the 107Dunbar Express - first stop -----East Linton!
SpeedbirdA350
Member
Nope. I honestly can't see the LEZ making as much money as the council think. I think also that the council think this will stop some cars driving in but it won't. LEZ says petrol cars have to be Euro 4 or above ie 2005 I think and to be honest, I have not seen that many cars older than this on the road, let alone in the city centre. Diesel I think is 2014 but I can't see it making a reduction in cars (big enough to notice is what I mean) nor collecting a huge sum.
The council could do so much more if it wanted to though, like I said above, it could change the rules on Princes St from Buses, taxi, cyclists and trams to Local buses, cyclists and trams. Putting all non local buses and taxis up towards George St/Queen St. It could make radical changes by making some key roads bus/taxi/cycle only ie look at Shandwick Place. It was usually a busy road, and now it's not. Can you imagine what they COULD acheve if they planned it properly? Ie if they decided to put a Bus/Taxi/Cycle only route on foot of Lothian Road? It would force all cars via West App Road and if they done the same with the Mound and Hanover St. As that juncion in particular, you often see vehicles blocking Princes St junction due to too many trying to get through. Leith Street/North Bridge could be another. Not easy but if done right, it would make more of a dent than any LEZ would for cars in the city centre.
I already said above that some bus routes could be moved on to George St ie 11, 16, 44 (ie those heading towards Leith Walk/London Road) but one thing is for sure, if the council don't do something soon, it's only going to get worse.
scotrail158713
Established Member
There’s plenty of people use the 113 to Milton Road so running the buses along there won’t solve the problem. I think the solution is pick up only from the city centre through ‘til Musselburgh. And set down only going into Edinburgh.
I know quite a lot of people who drive into the city centre and park on a regular basis, and very few of them have any genuine need to do so. Whilst Lothian Road stays open as a primary route in the plan, the amount of space on the road is reduced, and probably even more crossings are put in. Just as traffic expands to fill any space you give it, people pretty soon start to discover that their journey isn't necessary/can be done by bus when you start to take the space away. There was also a fair amount of work done on eliminating daytime van and coach movements through the centre. No amount of faffing around with where you put the traffic is going to solve the problem. You just have to bully it off the roads.
Frankly I'm astounded that I seriously suggested a bus tunnel along Princes Street, and the thing in the post that got picked up on as ridiculous was stopping traffic going down a road where it's currently an absolute pain.
More utter dribble and whinging from the Edinburgh News rag - https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....jpS_NarhslroNLz-JvkFsTzyHr5jBqdRNxDoOkW-OgKCM
Jordan Adam
Established Member
It's not really, the XLBs are too big for the roundabout, i think that was noted here by other members the day they entered service.
Darklord8899
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Aye, and normally the Airlink wouldn't do the right turn into Waverley Bridge and have to turn at the bottom ..... it would go Fredrick St., George St., Hanover St., Mound, Market St.
......but the Spiegeltent is more important than buses running their normal routes......
......but the Spiegeltent is more important than buses running their normal routes......
Surely for a limited time they could allow buses only to turn right from Princes Street onto the Mound? It's not as if there is anything physically preventing it.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Out of interest (and do excuse me if this is a stupid question) have the XLB's been up The Mound yet?
I'm in no way saying it's the case but they could potentially have traction issues getting up it during wet weather.
I doubt they would have traction issues as if they did, companies like KMB and NWFB in Hong Kong wouldn't be buying them. Hong Kong has hills that would make the mound look flat.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
You say that however the companies in Hong Kong have had issues with their tri-axles loosing traction, even in one of the bus stations they have issues when it rains so you have to floor them flat out to get up a small incline.
Darklord8899
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The right turn up the Mound (and left turn from Mound to Princes St.) were removed once the Tram stop was built. Now only one traffic lane and tram tracks
Darklord8899
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Yes as the XLB's have been on the 27
I saw an XLB heading up The Mound on a 27 yesterday. That was in one of the few dry spells however!
But as you well know, the 100 isn’t taking the normal route at the moment.
You have to wonder what the paper actually wants? No new buses? Terminus moved to a distant location? Or presumably just running a negative story about every single thing.
And people here keep suggesting Lothian make major network changes?!
Certain people here and the papers would have a field day!
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Indeed, i was just pointing out that the article isn't wrong in stating they're too big to do a U turn there.
Thought so, thanks for clarifying.
Yes they are shorter. Roughly one row of seats shorter in "basic" terms.
I know that. You've missed my point. They could quite easily remove the no right turn from that junction and allow the Airlink services to turn right onto the Mound from Princes Street until the diversions are finished.
It wouldn’t work, they’d need an additional phase at the lights, which would result in less traffic getting through overall.
VioletEclipse
Member
They've also been on the 41, and some 100s go Fredrick Street - Queen Street - Hanover Street - Mound - Market Street.
Or they could do what they do in places like Germany and allow buses to proceed using the tram signals to give them priority.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
That would be too logical for the citizens of The City Of Edinburgh Council.
Although they do that here at the Union Street / Bridge Street junction when there's a closure and there's no need for an additional phase there. So it could work quite easily in Edinburgh.
Darklord8899
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....which I'm surprised that hasn't been made the official route during the closure of George St. ..... surely has to be better than trying to right turn at Waverley and negotiating that roundabout.....
SpeedbirdA350
Member
Is there any reason they can't put the 100 Airlink service at St Andrew Sq now? I'm talking about the section closest to Princes St. Currently, there is a loading bay, disabled parking and a large taxi rank, often with cars anyway but if they put in a bus stop there, then its a couple of minutes walk from Princes St so it's not that far from where it terminates at the moment? Just thinking that they often have to move the 100 when PS closes anyway and it's often to St Andrew Sq although at the other side of the square.
To make things even easier they could just turn the hatched area into the right turn lane and the current right turn lane into the Airlink stances. Would work very well once Waverley Bridge is closed.
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